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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    http://www.amazon.com/Silva-Starter-.../dp/B000COOUAA

    Under an ounce.
    No batteries.
    Works under tree cover, in canyons, and even with one eye closed.
    Screen won't fog, no moving parts to break.
    Waterproof, highly shock resistant.
    Costs $12, includes lifetime service plan.
    Don't need wi-fi or bluetooth to update.
    Pairs perfectly with your I-Phone.
    When you are in the middle of the desert, with only one spring within 15 miles, and you are running low on water, I'll take the GPS with the waypoint of the spring over the SILVA any day.
    But, having both WILL save your battery.
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  2. #62

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    The "GPS" in a phone usually works off WiFi routers that allow location.

    Read carefully to find out if there is an actual GPS chip inside your phone.

    I can't believe I didn't mention Orange Gadgets GPS for iPod Touch, iPhone at the time. Now, Emprum UltiMate GPS has been made available for the newer Apple iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad, etc.

    It has the most powerful and accurate GPS I have seen: I could watch myself stop at the curb, or, step off the curb.

    I never had it fail, but I don't walk in deep ravines or slot canyons. It works in Old Growth forest I have hiked.

    The Dual 150A and other GPS in that brand improve on internal GPS devices in phones and tablets, as well, and work with i-apps or Android apps. It has the advantage it is a Bluetooth device that will communicate with up to 5 devices, at the same time. It could be used for teaching others how to use a GPS, without having to purchase their own GPS ahead of a hike.

    I like the fact it does not plug-in to my iPod Touch, as an attachment. It works hanging off my pack or in the lid pocket. I have seen it worn on a shoulder strap.

  3. #63
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    "The "GPS" in a phone usually works off WiFi routers that allow location."
    I'd be interested in a source for that. I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that everything I've read has suggested otherwise --- that while a-gps aids in getting the signals via cell towers (if cell radio is on!), an actual GPS chip is pretty much standard in modern/current smartphones.
    Perhaps what you're saying is that folks sometimes get location information with location services (i.e., GPS chip active) off, but there too, in my experience the smartphone kind of forces you to turn it on, or at least a lot of apps try to.
    So --- if you can point out your source(s) for that, I'd appreciate the education.

    What I'm finding interesting in this general area is the rise of location satellite systems in other countries, particularly two more that are rolling out global systems. Besides U.S. based NAVSTAR (GPS), I've appreciated that my phone uses the Russian GLONASS system, but Europe is building out their Galileo system and China is getting a start on phase 3 (global rollout) of their BaiDou system. So by 2020 a receiver --- whether dedicated GPS or smartphone --- will have so many satellites to use for triangulation. GLONASS already helps measurably; perhaps living in a more northern part of the U.S. biases me a bit on that, however. Bottom line, is if I were looking to buy a standalone GPS or when I eventually replace my smartphone I'll definitely consider whether it will have hardware that can detect not just NAVSTAR and GLONASS satellites, but Galileo and BaiDou birds as well.

    One can of course do that for GLONASS in smartphone selection now, via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smartphones_supporting_GLONASS_navigation

    Gadget
    PCT: 2008 NOBO, AT: 2010 NOBO, CDT: 2011 SOBO, PNT: 2014+2016

  4. #64
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    I-Device user here...

    For the past few years I have been using GaiaGPS on my iphone for navigation and logging. The iphone has GPS capability when in AirPlane mode, and GaiaGPS allows you to download maps for the areas you will trek in. So offline access to maps and GPS only usage on the device.

    Until recently I was logging my treks for offline use post trek as well, using GaiaGPS, but found it was sucking battery life and though I carry a backup battery there is rarely a time in the middle of the day I want sit and recharge a battery. I also log on my Suunto Ambit.. Why was I logging twice? The Ambit can go two or three days without a charge; I don't need to see my recorded track while I am out, just my current location and the route I want to be on. So, between Suunto, GaiaGPS map and compass I am covered.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post
    The "GPS" in a phone usually works off WiFi routers that allow location.
    I can put my iPhone in Airplane mode and use Guthook. I think there was a change around iOS 8 that allowed apps to access the GPS chip. I believe WiFi is used to help the accuracy of the GPS but is no longer required.

    That said, an actual GPS unit is probably far better technically but frankly, usability is lacking IMO. On The AT Guthook is just far easier and just as useful.
    Last edited by Uncle Joe; 11-13-2016 at 11:50.

  6. #66
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    Most smartphones use several informations to get the location, and the user can choose which info it should use.
    GPS only takes some time for the first lock (up to several minutes) as the data stream from the satellites is extremely low, and the receiver has to wait for more and more satellites to pass over and get their full info, until it can calculate the position accurately (it needs 3 to even start calculation, but needs 5 to get height info as well - and then its skipping some unfitting satelites, so it will wait for some others to pass over).
    It greatly helps if the receiver is power-on the whole time, re-calculating the position minutes later is fast and easy then (but then, the always-on eats more battery). It also helps to download a current "map" or "flighplan" of the satellites, to get faster results. I think smartphones do this by themselves.

    Near civilisation the smartphone also can take WIFI locations for a first lock, which works surprisingly well - if there is WIFI, which obviousely isn't out in the backcountry.
    Triangulation off cellphone towers would be very inaccurate and I'm not sure if the smartphone itself could perform it. Its more of a crime-TV thing I believe.

    Modern smartphones have very decent GPS chips and software, are very accurate and use surprisingly little battery.
    With my 2yr old Sony I can track my hike for up to three days, using Backcountry Navigator (other apps might work even better?), given that I'm using all other settings for lowest battery usage.

  7. #67
    Registered User KDogg's Avatar
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    I had zero problems with guthooks gps on both android and iphone. Was always able to get a fix regardless of coverage. Actually never met anybody carrying an actual GPS.

  8. #68
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    I would expect the GPS in an actively used iPhone is always on.. Gaia plots a position instantly. Haven't had a single issue with locating, positioning and plotting.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    _______________________________________
    The difficulty of finding any given trail marker is directly proportional to the importance of the consequences of failing to find it.

  9. #69
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    Can't speak for i-devices, but in Android it depends on apps.
    GPS is off, unless any app is asking for position. You can decide for every single app to allow it asking for position.
    "Any app" includes Chrome, camera and all social media, so if you have a default setup most likely many of your apps constantly ask for position data.

    When tracking, I have set Backcountry Navigator to get position data every 5 seconds. The app is asking for the data every 5 seconds, and the device calculates the position without any noticabely delay.
    Reason is, re-calculation of the data with the just slightly different input of the few seconds of free movement is very easy and very accurate.
    Receiving the signal is very little work for the device, too.

    The calculation to be done to get the GPS position is a pretty hard one if all input data is new, its a long winding and iterative process, and it will take a lot of (CPU-) power.
    I bleive that in modern devices it takes less battery to keep the GPS quasi-on than to switch it on only randomly.

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