Smart Phone vs GPS

[Gnomad]

This seems to be relevant: http://adventurealan.com/iphone4gps.htm

[Offshore]

It really depends on what you will use it for and where. If you plan to hike well walked trails like the AT, you likely won't have much problem in losing the trail and a cell phone may be a nice way to track progress or stats. If you are in the back country following "approximate" routes to various places (as in desert hiking where there are not many real trails for example), you will probably want something more robust.

For what its worth, I find the articles I have read regarding the use of Smartphones or GPS units to mirror my own experience. I use a Garmin 60 CSx when out on trails. It gets outstanding coverage under fairly robust canopies and in canyons usually. There have only been a handful of times I have lost signal with it in WA state in some of the tall old growth forests. This and the 64 model supposedly have the best canopy/canyon signal reception but that could have changed in the past year. Cell phones may provide a back up, but not much beats a paper map, compass, and a GPS with the varied functions.

Another big fan of a handheld GPS (Garmin GPSMap 60csx) over a cell phone. My number 1 reason is battery life. Using a GPS continuously on your cell phone will kill the battery in an hour or two while the current Garmin GPSMap 64 models will go for hours and hours on a set of replaceable lithium ion batteries (bonus of Li ion over alkaline is that in addition to lasting longer, they are a lot lighter so its not a big deal to toss a spare set in the pack). I use Avenza PDF maps on my iPhone to check my position on a map occasionally, but for navigation, I use my Garmin loaded with the 1:24000 topos.

[QiWiz]

I would go with the smartphone. There are a bunch of off line map apps (so cellular service is not required), and they are just getting better all the time, The smartphone is where the advancements are coming to first. It's something you have already, so not a extra thing. Many apps are geared towards locating your position when and only when you ask, so you save batteries over continuous tracking.

+1
When I started to use Gaia GPS on an iPhone, I ended up selling off my dedicated GPS because I no longer used/needed it. You do not need a cellular connection. You can download maps (USGS topo) so that you know exactly where you are. You can download a track (like the AT) so that you also know if you are on trail. What more do you need?

[garyp]

+1
When I started to use Gaia GPS on an iPhone, I ended up selling off my dedicated GPS because I no longer used/needed it. You do not need a cellular connection. You can download maps (USGS topo) so that you know exactly where you are. You can download a track (like the AT) so that you also know if you are on trail. What more do you need?

I used my phone on the JMT and it would drain my battery like no tomorrow. I am debating getting a dedicated GPS instead of my phone.

[Starchild]

I used my phone on the JMT and it would drain my battery like no tomorrow. I am debating getting a dedicated GPS instead of my phone.

If you use your phone for tracking, then yes it will deplete your battery very fast, but why would you need tracking for normal hiking? The hiking apps that are really worth it I have found are apps that will just get your location when you request it. Those apps sip power unless you check constantly.

As for tracking, and just a FYI, I use a tracking app while group hiking so stragglers can find the group. I get about 6 hours on a full charge to 20% on my iPhone. That app not only uses GPS but also continuous cellular service to transmit my location.

[MuddyWaters]

I wont use a gps for any more that spot checks, and source of electronic maps. A phone will do this fine.

A phone without a cell signal eats battery life. Keep phone turned off except when need. Problem solved.

[BrianLe]

"I wont use a gps for any more that spot checks, and source of electronic maps. A phone will do this fine."

For shorter trips and infrequent spot checks that's true. The power issue comes into play when you're hiking for long periods where the opportunity to recharge is relatively rare, and doing it on a trail that is less well marked, and/or perhaps where a GPS is helpful for other issues.

[Connie]

Pactically everywhere I hike, there is no cell phone service.

The phone "GPS" gets coordinates from triangulating cell towers. If WiFi, the cell phone "GPS" gets coordinates from triangulating WiFi systems and modems that allow location services.

If your cell phone has an internal actual GPS, I would like to know about it.

I recommended the most accurate pocket GPS I know. It has the advantage of working with practically any software or app. It works with iPhone, Android phones, iPad, iPod, Android tablets, Windows tablets, and maybe even a Kindle if it has a map app and Bluetooth.

[10-K]

Pactically everywhere I hike, there is no cell phone service.

The phone "GPS" gets coordinates from triangulating cell towers. If WiFi, the cell phone "GPS" gets coordinates from triangulating WiFi systems and modems that allow location services.

If your cell phone has an internal actual GPS, I would like to know about it.

I recommended the most accurate pocket GPS I know. It has the advantage of working with practically any software or app. It works with iPhone, Android phones, iPad, iPod, Android tablets, Windows tablets, and maybe even a Kindle if it has a map app and Bluetooth.

An iPhone has a GPS chip... You can google it, there's lots of info on it.

[Connie]

I have been in iFans forum years: I am Geekgrrl.

Its "news" to me.

We have had several discussion forum threads over the years at that iPod Touch Fans/iFans Cupertino Apple "skunkworks" forum iPhone does not have an actual GPS that gets coordinates from satellites.

[Connie]

Ooh, pictures... Google
apple iphone gps chip

I looked at the adventurealan link (above) as well.

I have looked at side-by-side comparisons that show the iPhone GPS is not highly accurate. It may be fine for bicycling trips, but if I am bushwacking the Pacific Northwest Trail looking for a better line if no trail, I like precision.

That said, I understand the AT doesn't have that problem. If early or late season, snow can obscure the trail. I have heard people unintentionally get off the white blaze trail, as well. That's about it.

[10-K]

This isn't one of those things I need to be right about but for what it's worth there's a decent writeup here.. FWIW, the iPod touch does not have a GPS nor do wifi only iPads. The GPS on an iPhone is on the chip that provides cellular communications. That's why an iPhone GPS won't work in airplane mode but an Android phone GPS does.

http://tewha.net/2011/10/how-the-iph...avigation-gps/

iOS Hardware Models

First, some iOS devices have a GPS chip and some do not.

• A device with a GPS chip can identify your location (usually within 10 or 20 meters) even when it has no WIFI or Cellular signal. A device without a GPS chip can identify your approximate location only when it has a WIFI signal; these devices are still useful tools for looking at maps but will not show your location on the map while you are hiking.
• All iPhone models (4, 4S, 5, 5C, 5S, 6, 6+) include a GPS chip.
• No iPod-Touch model has a GPS chip.
• All iPad models that have 3G or Cellular also have GPS chip and therefore behave like an iPhone for mapping purposes. The WIFI-only iPads do not have a GPS chip and therefore behave like an iPod Touch for mapping purposes.

[Starchild]

For shorter trips and infrequent spot checks that's true. The power issue comes into play when you're hiking for long periods where the opportunity to recharge is relatively rare, and doing it on a trail that is less well marked, and/or perhaps where a GPS is helpful for other issues.

How many days are you going w/o recharge? I could go about 10 days + with my phone + 5000 mAh battery pack using GPS (on demand - 'spot checking' as you put it), music, audio books, occasional use of cellular/data and even streaming music and on line maps & daily weather. The battery pack is comparable in weight to if not slightly less then that of a handheld GPS.

A handheld GPS should be more rugged/water resistant and they commonly get 20 hours or so out of 2xAA batteries continuous tracking. IDK if they can do 'spot checks', if so that may be practically unlimited use.

[Starchild]

This isn't one of those things I need to be right about but for what it's worth there's a decent writeup here.. FWIW, the iPod touch does not have a GPS nor do wifi only iPads. The GPS on an iPhone is on the chip that provides cellular communications. That's why an iPhone GPS won't work in airplane mode but an Android phone GPS does.

http://tewha.net/2011/10/how-the-iph...avigation-gps/

iOS Hardware Models

First, some iOS devices have a GPS chip and some do not.

• A device with a GPS chip can identify your location (usually within 10 or 20 meters) even when it has no WIFI or Cellular signal. A device without a GPS chip can identify your approximate location only when it has a WIFI signal; these devices are still useful tools for looking at maps but will not show your location on the map while you are hiking.
• All iPhone models (4, 4S, 5, 5C, 5S, 6, 6+) include a GPS chip.
• No iPod-Touch model has a GPS chip.
• All iPad models that have 3G or Cellular also have GPS chip and therefore behave like an iPhone for mapping purposes. The WIFI-only iPads do not have a GPS chip and therefore behave like an iPod Touch for mapping purposes.

Bold part mine, it is not true what you state, well not true anymore. The iPhones will allow the use of GPS while in airplane mode, while not using cellular. It may or may not be on the same chip, but the antennas for GPS and Cellular are separate and can and do get used independently. It is true that the iPhone will use cellular and wifi to get a better/quicker lock on your position, but it is not required.

Now at one time using airplane mode on the iPhone would turn off all antennas, so you could not use GPS, but that was limited in iOS (software) and not a hardware limitation. That was changed to allow GPS (and WiFi) many iOS versions ago.

The iPhone will also use GPS fine by itsel if there is no cellular service or WiFi signal.

[10-K]

Bold part mine, it is not true what you state, well not true anymore. The iPhones will allow the use of GPS while in airplane mode, while not using cellular. It may or may not be on the same chip, but the antennas for GPS and Cellular are separate and can and do get used independently. It is true that the iPhone will use cellular and wifi to get a better/quicker lock on your position, but it is not required.

Now at one time using airplane mode on the iPhone would turn off all antennas, so you could not use GPS, but that was limited in iOS (software) and not a hardware limitation. That was changed to allow GPS (and WiFi) many iOS versions ago.

The iPhone will also use GPS fine by itsel if there is no cellular service or WiFi signal.

You are correct! From what I can tell by googling GPS started working with the release of iOS 8.3. How cool is that... Now we can use the GPS without the battery drain of having cellular on with no service always searching-searching-searching.

Thanks for pointing that out.

(I notice you say "Many versions of iOS ago" but I'm pretty sure it did not work in iOS 7.x because I was hiking the PCT then and no GPS in airplane mode for certain. Everything I can find googling says GPS did not require airplane mode beginning with iOS 8.3.)

[Venchka]

When my wife and I go on walks in the neighborhood, I use my Garmin GPS and she uses some fitness app for her iPhone 4s. On our dedicated loop, her fitness app always says we've hiked right at 2.0 miles, but my Garmin consistently says we've only gone 1.85 miles. Can't say for sure which is more accurate but my vote would be that a dedicated GPS unit is getting more accurate results than an iPhone app.

I have Argus on my iPhone 5s. It has a setting for stride length. Out of the box it uses a preset stride length. Perhaps your wife's app uses something similar and she has not calibrated her stride length.

Wayne

[garyp]

I have all trails map ap and one thing I noticed was that the map wouldn't fully load. I downloaded it and followed the instructions however the app ate my battery like no tomorrow and I couldn't get see anything on the map at all due to the map wouldn't load. For me that was a worthless app and I even made sure I stated this on the rate the app.

[Starchild]

(I notice you say "Many versions of iOS ago" but I'm pretty sure it did not work in iOS 7.x because I was hiking the PCT then and no GPS in airplane mode for certain. Everything I can find googling says GPS did not require airplane mode beginning with iOS 8.3.)

I'm not exactly sure when, I can do it right now on my old iPhone 4 with iOS 5.1.1, it is jailbroken IDK if I had that ability though the iOS or added it through the JB.

[Fredt4]

Pactically everywhere I hike, there is no cell phone service.

The phone "GPS" gets coordinates from triangulating cell towers. If WiFi, the cell phone "GPS" gets coordinates from triangulating WiFi systems and modems that allow location services.

If your cell phone has an internal actual GPS, I would like to know about it.

I recommended the most accurate pocket GPS I know. It has the advantage of working with practically any software or app. It works with iPhone, Android phones, iPad, iPod, Android tablets, Windows tablets, and maybe even a Kindle if it has a map app and Bluetooth.

Most Android phones don't use cell towers for the GPS unless they're available. Used a LG on my 2011 AT thru hike for this reason. My previous phone required cell towers to get a fix. Pretty certain Apple phones no longer require a cell tower.

My biggest reasons for recommending cellphone over GPS are:
One device vs two
I use my phones GPS regularly so I'm familiar with the interface. Many times I've come across weekenders that were unfamiliar with their GPS.
Don't need multiple charging devices.

Backcountry Navigator app is the best app I've found for off-line use.

[MuddyWaters]

If your cell phone has an internal actual GPS, I would like to know about it.

What rock you live under?
Not only do they support gps, but glonass (russian) as well.