Walk up permit question out of mammoth...Devils pp north via JMT to HI....help!!

[saltysack]

I'm set to go with one permit for sept 10-13 nobo Devils pp to HI. My wife was able to get time off work but all permits reserved. Only 4 permits issued as walk ups for Devils pp north via JMT. The way I understand the walk up system as u show up before they open and get a number for a start the next day. Go back at 11 hopefully get permit? Am I missing something. I guess we will have to fly in a day sooner...no big deal but do y'all think chances good to get 1 more permit? Fly in Tuesday for a Thursday start....another day to acclimate..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

Ask if you can you add her to your permit? If not where are you attempting to get another walk up JMT NOBO from Devils PP to HI permit? I bet if you're attempting to get this permit Tues Sept 8 or Wed Sept 9 from the Back Country Office IN YV by getting there about 1 hr before they open you'll get your one permit for the next day. Walk up permits for the JMT have always been based on a first to ask first to get up until the quota allowed for that TH entry pt/itinerary is filled. BUT the permit offices also may start a waiting list over and above the quota accounting for things like no shows, perceived specific TH business, etc. I believe, Rangers at their discretion, can sometimes make allowances for various reasons. IF you find that those 4 permits have already been taken make mention of your situation that your wife has flown out from FL to share this hike with you and you already have a permit for yourself.

So, you are going to flip flop from Devils PP/Reds Meadow? Are you using a rental car? Use that bus that goes between ML and RM if you don't. You normally pay the bus fare on a RT fare rate. Make sure you hold onto your RT stub for the second leg of your bus ride. If you're not doing the whole RT in the same day mention it to the bus driver. Piped hot spring showers near RM too. YARTS goes between YV and ML.

[Dogwood]

With some of the new JMT permit regs what the permit office may now be doing is making a list of walk up permit seekers. The first four on the walk up list with the itinerary of NOBO on the JMT DPP to HI are assured permits for the next day provided they show back up at 11 BUT the permit office is waiting until 11 to finally issue those permits. This way they get a better idea of the usage and flow from that TH and the tread traffic between the two THs to make final adjustments possibly allowing a greater number of permits than the quota typically allows. Get to the permit office in the morn BEFORE they open as I said and I think you should be good. If not does your wife know how to cry?

One of the things the Y NP Rangers said they wanted for the JMT was to keep it a wilderness experience. They don't want humans unnecessarily bunching up which would negatively detract from that wilderness experience. Mind you this is the NPS who are also concerned not only about what humans want. They are looking at the larger ecosystem attempting to keep it largely intact for all forms of life balancing human desires with other environmental concerns.

[Coffee]

Here is the link with information on Inyo National Forest's Walk-in permit pickup rules which would be the agency in charge of issuing northbound JMT permits leaving from Devil's Postpile:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/p...alkin%20permit

The link states that walk-in permits can not be issued more than one day before entry date. So you can go in when the permit office opens the day prior to the entry date and hope that there isn't a line of people waiting for the same permit. Also, the page states that reserved permits are subject to cancellation if not picked up by 10am on the date of entry. So even if there are no walk-in permits available, you can hang around the permit office until 10am on the date you hope to enter in case someone doesn't show up. I'm sure this happens all the time given that it is pretty cheap to reserve permits and some people won't have the courtesy to cancel if plans change.

Beyond these mechanics, you could decide to be flexible and consider alternate entry points with different quotas. For example, rather than entering Devil's Postpile North which has only 4 walk-in quotas, you could consider the River Trail (12 quota spaces) or the High Trail (8 quota spaces). Being open to these alternates would greatly increase the chances of success with a walk in. The River Trail takes a route from Agnew Meadow roughly parallel to the JMT and eventually joins the PCT just east of Thousand Island Lake and the JMT/PCT junction. The High Trail also leaves Agnew Meadow and is the PCT. It joins up with the JMT at Thousand Island Lake.

I have hiked the River Trail before but only up to the Shadow Creek trail heading toward Lake Ediza. It's a pretty nice trail, although less scenic than the JMT itself. I haven't hiked the High Trail. It is supposed to be more exposed with broader views than the JMT. What you do miss by taking either the River or High Trails are the series of very scenic lakes along the JMT: Gladys, Rosalie, Shadow, Garnet, Ruby, and Emerald Lakes are all missed. So the JMT is still probably what you prefer but by being open to alternates you increase your odds.

You could call up Inyo to ask but my guess is that if you are open to the JMT, the River Trail, or the High Trail on a walk up basis and if you show up a day prior to entry at opening time, your odds are probably excellent of getting something and at least not being turned away. Your end point on any of these permits can be Happy Isles. Once you join the JMT at Thousand Island lake, the hikes are identical.

[saltysack]

With some of the new JMT permit regs what the permit office may now be doing is making a list of walk up permit seekers. The first four on the walk up list with the itinerary of NOBO on the JMT DPP to HI are assured permits for the next day provided they show back up at 11 BUT the permit office is waiting until 11 to finally issue those permits. This way they get a better idea of the usage and flow from that TH and the tread traffic between the two THs to make final adjustments possibly allowing a greater number of permits than the quota typically allows. Get to the permit office in the morn BEFORE they open as I said and I think you should be good. If not does your wife know how to cry?

One of the things the Y NP Rangers said they wanted for the JMT was to keep it a wilderness experience. They don't want humans unnecessarily bunching up which would negatively detract from that wilderness experience. Mind you this is the NPS who are also concerned not only about what humans want. They are looking at the larger ecosystem attempting to keep it largely intact for all forms of life balancing human desires with other environmental concerns.

Thx again...our plan is to fly into Reno, get rental car..head south to ML. Stay at cinnamon bear or Shiloh for night then..figure out best way to get to trail ...the bus to reds/DPP stops running day before we start!!! (I guess we can drive rental car to trail head?) following morning after get permits and head north on JMT..my permit is for Thursday sept 10 so I guess we have to fly out Tuesday instead of Wednesday to get her a Thursday permit....Sunday at 5:00 catch yarts from HI back to ML where we will somehow get car from trail head then stay at same hotel for sun night. Monday morning get up...wife will drop me at Reds/DPP on a second permit with a Whitney exit...I'm sobo and she drives back to Reno for a 1:30 flight home. 10 days later I hope to finish then Thursday sept 24 catch esta to Reno for a 1:30 flight...thoughts???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

THX, Coffee for posting that info.

[saltysack]

+1....thx coffee. I have spoke with them several times. They seem to think if I show up around 7 the day before should be fine. Shuttles will not be running out to reds/dpp....less desirable? Thx again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jmu11]

Hi all, appreciate any help as I'm a bit confused.

I'm in the process now of faxing in my permits to Yosemite for a southbound thru-hike for a party of two starting sometime hopefully in the first two weeks of July. However I realize that getting those permits is most likely not going to happen so I'm looking at alternatives and flip-flopping out of Mammoth looks to be the best option for me at the moment. A couple of questions:

1) Will I need to get two permits? One for first heading north and then a second once we've made it back to Mammoth to head south exiting at Whitney?

2) Looking at recreation.gov I'm not exactly sure what permit it is I'm looking for to head north and exit at HI. Is it "John Muir Trail North of Devils Postpile AA10"? I'm confused because from the permit availability drop down menu the only options are: cross country, overnight visiting Whitney, or overnight exiting Whitney. There's nothing about heading north and exiting at HI.

Obviously I'm a little lost and would greatly appreciate any and all help. I'm also open to other JMT alternate trip suggestions.

Thanks

[Coffee]

1) Yes, you will need two separate permits for doing a flip-flop thru hike from the Mammoth area. Your wilderness trip will be considered over when you exit at Happy Isles and a new permit will be needed when you return to continue southbound.

2) You should select an "Overnight" permit for the John Muir Trail North of Devil's Postpile AA10. I just checked recreation.gov and "Overnight" is indeed an option. When you go through the steps required to apply for the permit, the system will ask you for anticipated overnight camping locations. Just estimate as best as you can. No one holds you to that. I have read that hikers coming into Yosemite on an Inyo permit are permitted to summit Half Dome if they want to but you should check on that with Yosemite's wilderness office to confirm, if you anticipate hiking Half Dome.

For the second permit, select an "Overnight Exiting Mt Whitney" permit for the John Muir Trail South of Devil's Postpile AA15. This assumes that you wish to exit at Whitney Portal after you summit Mt. Whitney. You will be asked to provide an exit date since the Whitney Portal trail has an exit quota. Also, in order to make the reservation, you will need to select an entry date and an exit date where quota space is available.

Be as flexible as possible for both legs of the trip. For your northbound segment, you can enter at a number of alternate trailheads if AA10 is booked. For example, you could enter using the High Trail (PCT), River Trail, or Shadow Creek trails all from Agnew Meadows if AA10 is booked. You would link up to the JMT at either Shadow Lake (if using the Shadow Creek permit) or Thousand Island Lake (if using the High or River Trail permits). For your southbound leg, you could use the Fish Creek permit quota if the AA15 quota is full. You would hike toward Iva Bell Hot Springs and then reconnect with the JMT at Purple Lake and continue southbound.

Finally you could consider a northbound thru hike starting at Horseshoe Meadows over Cottonwood Pass. Although this has some challenges with elevation, permits are generally easier to deal with and, if you are just visiting Mt. Whitney as opposed to exiting Whitney Portal, the exit quota won't apply.

The JMT Yahoo group is also a good place to get tips on permit issues. Good luck.

[Jmu11]

Thanks for the info Coffee, really helpful. I'm hesitant to do a northbound thru b/c my hiking partner has a tough time with altitude

[Jmu11]

Ok, so I have booked my northbound permit from Devils postpile and am looking at the southbound portion now. It looks like there is availability for JMT south of devils postpile for my entrance date however I have a question in regards to the "overnight exiting Mt. Whitney" permit. I did a rough estimation and have July 22 as my exit date. On recreation.org from July 7-19 all permits are reserved and then from July 20 and on it has a "X" as unavailable. Anyone have any experience as to what time these become available so I can jump on one? All of the info I have looked at references six months but nothing about the exact time when these switch from unavailable to available.

Thanks

[Coffee]

My guess is that they become available at midnight, but not sure what time zone. You might want to call the Inyo National Forest to see if they know. I would probably check at midnight Eastern Time on January 22, six months before the desired date.

[colorado_rob]

All of the info I have looked at references six months but nothing about the exact time when these switch from unavailable to available.

Thanks

When we did our first JMT half-a-thru back in 2009, I used midnight (12:01am) Pacific time, which was 1:01 am here, exactly 180 days before, kinda inconvenient, but we got our permits (for seven people) right off the bat, no sweat. We were doing Bishop SOBO to Whitney. The next day, the remaining permits were gone.

Not sure the 180 day thing still applies, might be slightly different now.... did I see 186 days (6x31) now somewhere? Check this. but the 12:01 pacific time thing did work in 2009, at least.

[Jmu11]

Thanks for the info guys. Called Inyo National Forest for details and the new time it updates is 10 am eastern. Glad I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night...

[colorado_rob]

Thanks for the info guys. Called Inyo National Forest for details and the new time it updates is 10 am eastern. Glad I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night...

Fantastic! great to know. you've saved a bunch of people some sleep! Including myself, as we plan on a NOBO JMT repeat next year.

[Jmu11]

Thanks for all of the help! I successfully got permits for DPP North for July 5 and then DPP South entering July 11 exiting Whitney overnight July 22. However I also just got confirmation that I received a permit leaving from HI so I'll be releasing both permits from DPP. I don't think direct transfers are allowed but I believe they become available as soon as I cancel my reservation so we should be able to time that up. Let me know if anyone is interested.

[saltysack]

I did the exact flip flop you were considering but see you got one out of HI...lucky u! I had a ball this past sept. The flip was perfect! If you take a day off in ML call Rudy @ Cinnamon bear inn, they will likely pick u up at DPP cheap or free if your staying w them.. Cheaper hiker rate around $79 Inc awesome breakfast!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk