Changing of Behaviors

[bemental]

Maybe you should get a different trainer. It is unacceptable for your service dog to show aggression like that. I have couple of questions 1) what does your service dog help you with 2) did your trainer help prepare your dog for being out on the trails? A good trainer would have taken you and the dog out on trails and exposed him to likely situations before every recommending that you take your dog out on the AT. I am planning on taking our German shepherd out on a section hike in September and we are already teaching him to carry a pack with his own food and water. We take him out on trails and expose him to situations he is likely to encounter. We teach him how to climb over obstacles, not to drink out of water sources without permission, to leave things on command, to sleep in a tent, to come on command and most importantly we teach a friend command. A friend command teaches the dog to allow any person you say is a friend to touch him without showing aggression.A service dog is not a personal protection dog and he should be corrected for showing aggression towards another person. I think your dog is stressed because he does not know how to handle all the things that go along with being out on the trail.People of all shapes and sizes, packs and trekking poles can all upset dogs that are not trained to accept them. Not to mention all the different animals and scents he will encounter. Walking long miles each day and sleeping out in a tent or shelter is stressful to a dog that hasn’t learned how to deal with them. If you dog continues to show signs of stress or aggression towards other people it might be best to get him off the trail until you can do some additional training and better prepare him to be out there with you.

Thoughtful, and respectful. I appreciate the response.

[bemental]

Sounds to me a though the dog is guarding you.
If you believe that's possible then the problem is that you have allowed the dog to take the role of leader
Understandable considering the amount of energy you'll have left each day.

But if this is the case then the behaviour you need to correct is yours not the dogs

After thinking on this there might be some legitimacy here; due to the nature of hiking the trail with gear we typically walk single file with him usually walking point.

It *DOES* feel like a protective, guarding behavior.

[bemental]

After thinking on this there might be some legitimacy here; due to the nature of hiking the trail with gear we typically walk single file with him usually walking point.

It *DOES* feel like a protective, guarding behavior.

And after sleeping on it I realize that I'm hiking the trail as a means to potentially escape all the medical issues I have, the very issues he's trained to help with.

My avoidance, combined with a lackadaisical attitude, very well might be putting him into alpha dog mode.

Back to the basics for us: treats for every stranger, clear delineations of 'working' and 'not'. Every evening, as possible, we'll squeeze in a quick training review session as well.

I'll keep reporting back on our efforts.

[cbr6fs]

And after sleeping on it I realize that I'm hiking the trail as a means to potentially escape all the medical issues I have, the very issues he's trained to help with.

My avoidance, combined with a lackadaisical attitude, very well might be putting him into alpha dog mode.

Back to the basics for us: treats for every stranger, clear delineations of 'working' and 'not'. Every evening, as possible, we'll squeeze in a quick training review session as well.

I'll keep reporting back on our efforts.

IF it's a trait then positive reinforcement is certainly the way to go.

Also worth considering the dog could have been having a bad day, didn't like the person or she startled him.

Dpgs are not able to swat hands away, so if something they don't like approaches them it's instinctive to snarl, growl or put their mouth on the person/thing.

Usually dogs have 2 methods of doing this.

1/ Will be a snap but without any force, usually the person pulling their hand away causes the damage rather than the amount of force the dogs puts into it's bite.

2/ Bite, this is a full on bite and is very very rare that dogs without behavioural problems will resort to this.

I consider our Jack Russell exceptionally well trained and socialised, yet still if we've been on a long hike and she's tired if i pick her up wrong she will growl.
Nothing wrong with that if you know and understand the dog, in Bella's case she's just saying she doesn't want to be bothered.

The other thing is, he knows you are knackered after a days hiking, he can pick up on that so in his mind you need protecting.

Most dogs will go into protect mode if someone rushes at their owner, usually it's nothing more than a growl or a bark, but it's very common for dogs to show this behaviour.

IMO the fault is not with the dog, from what you've told us you being distracted and giving the woman permission to pet him was the problem, then the woman petting him was the second problem.

[wornoutboots]

Did you mean to say "Snap" as in lunging forward and snapping the jaws in an attempt to bite? An attack?

If this is the case, <how to say politely> if your dog snapped at me, in a place I was allowed legally and I was doing NOTHING wrong, I would have a HUGE, as in HAY - UGGE problem, regardless of what you or your trainer say. Anything in my hands at that time would become a way to neutralize the threat of a dog attacking me.

This is unacceptable behavior, in my opinion.

Not sure what else to say, as I'll be jumped by the pro-dog people.

Good luck. Hope you have a good lawyer on retainer.

I agree with the 2 posts above. I you should definitely tent away from ppl until you & your dog become familiar with the wilderness surroundings.

I wouldn't want anything to happen to your dog but just yesterday at work a dog charged me with teeth showing & was just short of attacking me & I positioned myself to stab/hurt or even kill the dog if necessary. I'm not saying your an irresponsible dog owner but if I would have killed the dog yesterday, it was all on the owner.

I hope you sort through this so you can enjoy your adventure!!

[wornoutboots]

Out just the other day with my 18 month old grandson at a local eatery with outdoor seating that allows dogs. A young woman was enjoying a cup with her dog at her side. My grandson, having a dog of his own he adores, automatically gravitated toward the dog. Before he could get too close to reach out I blocked his advance and asked the owner if it was okay for him to touch her dog. She was very appreciative that she was asked before lit' man was permitted to touch her pooch. The pup was indeed friendly and happily received the love and attention that little ones love give. Made for happy dog, dog owner, momma, grandma and lit man.

On and off the trail it is only polite to ask first. It could prevent an ugly occurrence.

I totally agree! This is how are family operates & everytime I pass a dog with my grand children, they want to pet the dog & I always tell them, we need to talk the the dogs owner because some dogs may not want to be petted by someone they don't know.
Thank you dog owners who step off the trail for approaching hikers!!!

[FooFooCuddlyPoops]

1. Most dog breeds are not far from the wild. Yes, they have territories. But some dogs can deal with change.
2. Ever think to consider that some dogs might actually find hiking to be fun? A thru-hike is tiring, yes, but why do those same dogs get up in the morning excited to go again. Some dogs are built towards hiking, and can no take being held up for long periods of time. I can not say that the thread owners dog is one of those dogs, but saying a dog wont like a long distance hike is a bunch of Bull Crap.

Don't take this the wrong way, but as you titled your thread "Changing of Behaviors", it would seem that the first change was you changing your behavior, by choosing to go on this hike.

You removed your dog, whose behavior is predicated on being a creature of habit and training, from the environment and daily routine he is both trained and used to.
You chose to take a LONG hike, likely in less comfortable conditions than the dog is used to. The dog was forced to follow.
You increased the dog's activity and workload, perhaps more so than he can handle, at least in the short-term.
You put the dog in close proximity to other people, in situations he is not used to.
You think hiking is fun. Maybe the dog is telling you he doesn't find hiking long miles every day fun.

Note your own statement,

Sorry, but most of this is all about you and your choices and behavior - not necessarily the dog's.

As far as the thread owner goes with the questions, I would take some time to really look at your dog. Feel his or her body for any signs of soreness. He could be in pain. Dogs act different when under stress, or pain. Did you hike with the dog prior to the trip to test him or her in the wilderness situation?

The aggression in your dog does remind me of my own dog. He can get territory style aggression when at home. Most of it sounds fear based...He is in a new place. Training does not help sometimes in a dog with literal self conscious issues.

For my dog, the more I put him in "safe" situations that challenge his fears, the more he developed to submit to his surroundings. Simba nipped fingers on the trail once from a passing jogger. He was corrected, but not locked up. I do not have 100% faith in him with people, but he treats people on the trail like they are in his own person pack now.

Just stay away from camping near groups. Take him to join you with the group on a very short leash. Let everyone know he is acting funny on the trail. Most people will understand to not want to pet him, etc. When he growls, correct him. When he doesn't, make sure you give him the best belly rub possible. Maybe he needs to be reminded of his training.

[mitch]

I see a lot of owners that consider there dogs trained, including therapy dogs, that are not obedient, Some years ago I saw law enforcement with a leased dog that would not heel dispite repeated commands. People have a hard time being honest about there dogs ability. Don't put them in a position were they will pay for your bad judgment.P1010005.JPG

[One Half]

What should folks do? Ignore your dog? Just pass by as expediently as possible?

Talk to the person and ask about petting the dog. I taught this to my son when he was little. You are a STRANGER. Don't assume you can pet someone's dog because they are sitting there calmly. Would you want the dog to just jump up on you and lick your face? No? Didn't think so. Don't go sticking your hands on a dog's body or in their face.

[ChrisJackson]

Talk to the person and ask about petting the dog. I taught this to my son when he was little. You are a STRANGER. Don't assume you can pet someone's dog because they are sitting there calmly. Would you want the dog to just jump up on you and lick your face? No? Didn't think so. Don't go sticking your hands on a dog's body or in their face.

yep. Umm, got it. Thanks.

[One Half]

If you dont want people to approach your dog, dont take it in public.
People like dogs, dogs like people. Its what they do.

so if people don't want to be approached they shouldn't go out in public either. I should just be comfortable with any stranger getting into my personal space because "I'm in public?!" No.

[Miel]

so if people don't want to be approached they shouldn't go out in public either. I should just be comfortable with any stranger getting into my personal space because "I'm in public?!" No.

I'd prefer a friendly dog to be in my personal space than a lot of humans out there.

I don't care if a dog jumps up and kisses me, as long as there's no biting.

As they say, there are no bad dogs, only bad humans who aren't responsible about sharing their lives with a pet.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Talk to the person and ask about petting the dog. I taught this to my son when he was little. You are a STRANGER. Don't assume you can pet someone's dog because they are sitting there calmly. Would you want the dog to just jump up on you and lick your face? No? Didn't think so. Don't go sticking your hands on a dog's body or in their face.

I once met a fellow dog lover who had gotten so tired of people touching her dog without permission that she had resorted to petting the strangers on their heads when they started to pet her dog. When they recoiled from her petting them she would give them a quizzical look and say something along the lines of "Oh, sorry, I just assumed you didn't mind being touched without permission either."

[Whichway]

As a trainer and dog observer, the best trained, sweetest, most conditioned dog will react badly when stresses get layered on.
Check physical condition first. Sore feet, infected tooth, off food, dehydration all could be one stresser. Taxing physical activity, just plain tired, strange people, thunderstorms, heat, all those are stressers. Pile on enough of them and ANY dog will exhibit unusual behavior toward Any one.

[deniivanov]

Hi there, I am new to the forum, but I'm contemplating on the thought to get a dog and do the Appalachian Trail next Year. I've already read a ton of information about it and feel like I'm ready do try this once in a lifetime experience. The problem is that I don't have anyone that would come with me and I've been thinking of getting a dog since I just retired last year. Hopefully a dog that would be a good companion throughout the trail. I know that dogs require a lot of training before going in the wild and I've read a lot on the best breeds for elders and the best dogs for hiking. The problem is that there isn't a breed that is a good fit both for seniors and for people that like trail walking. I am not planning on being an adventurer until the rest of my life and the Appalachian Trail is probably going to be a one time occasion. That's why I'm not really sure what to do, as the trail takes 5-7 months, but I'll have the dog for years to come and if it's an energetic breed I won't be able to cater to it's needs to run and exercise a lot.

[Tipi Walter]

Hi there, I am new to the forum, but I'm contemplating on the thought to get a dog and do the Appalachian Trail next Year. I've already read a ton of information about it and feel like I'm ready do try this once in a lifetime experience. The problem is that I don't have anyone that would come with me and I've been thinking of getting a dog since I just retired last year. Hopefully a dog that would be a good companion throughout the trail. I know that dogs require a lot of training before going in the wild and I've read a lot on the best breeds for elders and the best dogs for hiking. The problem is that there isn't a breed that is a good fit both for seniors and for people that like trail walking. I am not planning on being an adventurer until the rest of my life and the Appalachian Trail is probably going to be a one time occasion. That's why I'm not really sure what to do, as the trail takes 5-7 months, but I'll have the dog for years to come and if it's an energetic breed I won't be able to cater to it's needs to run and exercise a lot.

I spent 15 full years backpacking with a dog until he punched his ticket out of here on Veteran's Day November 2010. We had a good time together running thru yellow jacket nests and atop copperheads and thru deep water fords. He had a pack and could carry 17 days of his own food at one time. I miss old Shunka.

BUT you'd be better off without a dog. And loneliness can be stemmed by fellow hiking companions---you're on the AT in fact which is full of people to meet and to hike with.

A dog makes backpacking more difficult and more stressful as dogs like to bark and chase new arrivals in camp. You always have to be concerned for your dog and what he does. Easier to just go solo.

[Lnj]

We just took my 8 month old Texas Heeler puppy on our PMT Thru and normally she is the sweetest dog ever. She has been hiking many times before on very crowded trails were kids and people and other dogs of every shape size and color have approached her and she is always very sweet and loving to all. With that experience under our belt, I felt she would be a great trail dog. So we got her a pack... which she HATED. But she wore it without much rebellion, just an ugly look on her face and a lot of scrubbing up against trees trying to get it off. I guess she may have carried 10 pounds or so of just her water and food.

As soon as we parked the car and got out to begin the hike (Well before any tired or stress kicked in) a family of 4 came walking into the parking lot, a good distance away from us and she started growling. I was shocked. I had never seen her do that before. She didn't show teeth or act out in any other way, as they didn't come close at all, but I just couldn't believe she growled. I chalked it up to maybe the sensed something odd about them. But the rest of the trip she wouldn't let anyone come near us without growling or snapping. She wasn't overly aggressive in that she didn't attack, but no one could approach her. Of course we had her very securely under leash control and we tent/hammock camped. She slept under my husband's hammock at night. I know she had to be scared and stressed. She is used to sleeping in the bed with us and air conditioning with no bugs and on and on, and this was a very different world to her. though we had been hiking several times, we always went home at night where she could rest and we never had her carry a pack. At one point, we were on a ridgeline where we couldn't get off trail when a lady came by. My husband had her leash held tight so she couldn't do anything but the lady walks up to her with her hand palm down toward her head. My husband said to the lady "She really isn't feeling visiting right now" and tried to pull her away but the lady just kept coming. Thea lunged at her hand and snapped at her. She didn't actually bite her but if she had, it would have been that lady's fault. She was told to stay back and ignored the obvious verbal and visual warnings so...

With all that said, I was very worried about her, hoping she wasn't growing into an aggressive dog. We won't tolerate that. I have kids at home that adore her and I can't risk feeding anything that would hurt us. But at home, she is back to her normal self. If you even say her name, she flips over to have her belly rubbed. Same sweetheart as ever. We have deduced that she is a great day hike trail dog, but not a backpacking dog. We wont' bring her back out on an overnight, for her sake. We just thought she would love it because she loves day hikes, but it seems she didn't. She is also still a puppy. We will try just a one night overnighter with her again sometime when she is older and see if that helps. If it doesn't, she will be our day hiker and that's all.


No need to ever make your canine baby suffer through your hobby. Just not fair to the pup.

[saltysack]

Hi there, I am new to the forum, but I'm contemplating on the thought to get a dog and do the Appalachian Trail next Year. I've already read a ton of information about it and feel like I'm ready do try this once in a lifetime experience. The problem is that I don't have anyone that would come with me and I've been thinking of getting a dog since I just retired last year. Hopefully a dog that would be a good companion throughout the trail. I know that dogs require a lot of training before going in the wild and I've read a lot on the best breeds for elders and the best dogs for hiking. The problem is that there isn't a breed that is a good fit both for seniors and for people that like trail walking. I am not planning on being an adventurer until the rest of my life and the Appalachian Trail is probably going to be a one time occasion. That's why I'm not really sure what to do, as the trail takes 5-7 months, but I'll have the dog for years to come and if it's an energetic breed I won't be able to cater to it's needs to run and exercise a lot.

Agree with Tipi......but if you insist a shorty Jack is a amazing lil hiking machine...a laser pointer is all you need if your a couch potato...

[deniivanov]

Not really a couch potato, but the years have taken some of my speed and endurance that's for sure. I will probably have to put some more thought into the decision. I guess that I can try to find someone along the way, but don't really like to intrude on people. May be I'll have to do the trail first and simply get a more balanced dog that doesn't demand so much exercises.

[rocketsocks]

I spent 15 full years backpacking with a dog until he punched his ticket out of here on Veteran's Day November 2010. We had a good time together running thru yellow jacket nests and atop copperheads and thru deep water fords. He had a pack and could carry 17 days of his own food at one time. I miss old Shunka.

BUT you'd be better off without a dog. And loneliness can be stemmed by fellow hiking companions---you're on the AT in fact which is full of people to meet and to hike with.

A dog makes backpacking more difficult and more stressful as dogs like to bark and chase new arrivals in camp. You always have to be concerned for your dog and what he does. Easier to just go solo.

I couldn't agree more.

I don't hike with a dog cause I don't want the responsibility of chasing after him should they split for whatever reason (chases deer and gets picked up by someone) I'd stay till I found em and that can take a long time. A thru-hike takes a toll on a pup, a section hike might be a better choice for hiking with a dog if ya just had to do it. In my opinion.