Changing of Behaviors

[perdidochas]

Wanted to let everyone know how myself and my service dog have been doing over the past two weeks on the trail.

Encountered some odd behavior, my dog is getting territorial while at camp. He growls under his breath at certain individuals, and just recently snipped at a woman's face who he previously growled at (I was completely exhausted and had my back turned and wasn't paying attention when it happened - and feel absolutely horrible about it).

Obviously, this is behavior that I've never seen before from him. I immediately went off trail and called my trainer, who didn't necessarily consider the behavior negative, but informed me that he's basically 'alerting' to all the numerous smells, and sites that he encounters in the wild.

The behavior increases at night, and her explanation for this is because it is probably when most of the animals start coming out and getting closer to the humans on the trail. And, as a dog, he can sense and smell all of these animals and even though we can't see them as humans, he knows they're out there.

That being said, the behavior is not necessarily negative. If the alerts are happening and are unwarranted, then a correction is necessary. But if the alerts are not necessarily unwarranted, perhaps there is a shady individual around, then the behavior neither be reinforced or corrected. Perhaps the dog may need to be removed from the situation, and there will be more camping in our future than shelters, but until The behavior becomes a Radick or overly aggressive, she suggested that there be nothing to worry about at this time.

In summary, the behavior is natural - he is alerting to apparent dangers.

My two cents on the matter, is that when I returned to town today and was walking around and visiting various establishments with him, he was absolutely fine. He still responds to commands appropriately, does what he's supposed to when indoors and outside, and is following his training as if nothing is happened.

The snipping at the woman really rattled me at first, but I don't know who she was, what her background is, or what her intentions were. It was absolutely inappropriate for my dog, but I can't knock him for doing what he thought was best. It was my fault for not being more aware of the situation, something I must absolutely be aware of from now on.

Happy Hiking.

Not talking Service Dogs who are trained to a higher level, but if my dog behaved the way you are talking, I would stay away from the people he snapped at/growled at. He has some clue as to their intentions, IMHO. I had a dog (again, not a highly trained service dog) who was extremely friendly, except to one guy I knew. Especially when my girlfriend (now wife) was around, he would get agitated around this guy. Never saw him do that with any other human (he did have that reaction to other dogs at times).

[perdidochas]

Did you mean to say "Snap" as in lunging forward and snapping the jaws in an attempt to bite? An attack?

If this is the case, <how to say politely> if your dog snapped at me, in a place I was allowed legally and I was doing NOTHING wrong, I would have a HUGE, as in HAY - UGGE problem, regardless of what you or your trainer say. Anything in my hands at that time would become a way to neutralize the threat of a dog attacking me.

This is unacceptable behavior, in my opinion.

Not sure what else to say, as I'll be jumped by the pro-dog people.

Good luck. Hope you have a good lawyer on retainer.

Well, it sounds like the dog would have been warranted to snap, if his owner was almost asleep, and the woman came up to him. I know I would never come up to a dog in that situation.

[Hoofit]

just curious Bemental, feel free to tell me to bug ger off if you like but what service does the dog help you with?

[FlyPaper]

I've been at shelters with dogs numerous times. The dogs have all been friendly.

Growling at people because there are animals in the woods doesn't seem right.

[honogica]

Trust me: I'm a nice guy but if you run up to me and loudly, proclaim how cute I am, and then try to rub on me youre going to get a serious smack down.

My dog is no different. He has a job to do that has nothing to do with entertaining strangers or fulfilling their cuddle requirements.

He is, by law, private property. The same as my pack. Grabbing my pack and squeezing it and baby talking to it is just as stupid and illegal as doing those things to him.

Pay the same respect to any dog that you'd pay to any person: ask before rubbing one out.

[honogica]

Not to be harsh but I don't view it any different then someone approaching/touching my grandchild without permission. He is an adorable kid with an infectious smile that just draws people to him. Or that rude pregnant-belly touching thing that total strangers feel obligated/entitled to do. Just because they're there and cute and people want to touch them, doesn't mean it's okay or a good idea

Well said.

[Hot Flash]

I'm stuck in a catch 22. I can't be out here without the dog's help, but having the dog out here is changing the essence of the dog's behavioral being while on the trail.

I'm disturbed that your FIRST concern isn't the safety of other people. You need to remove your dog from the trail until the time when it's properly trained. That might be never, depending on the dog, on you, and on the trainer. Your hike is not more important than the physical safety of other people.

[bemental]

Bemental, I think your dog may be overstressed. Dogs exhibit aggressive behavior when stressed. Your dog was not trained under the conditions you are placing it. It's walking farther and under load every day than it was normally used to. Also, dogs sleep a lot. It can't sleep during the day, so in the evening in camp, it may try to or want to. But there's too much going on for it, particularly at a shelter. Each shelter is different and the dog is not developing a routine. Night time activity is likely keeping it up too.

Provided the service your dog provides is not impacted, here are some adjustments you can make.
1. Walk fewer miles.
2. Drop the load. Most of the original load you posted that your dog was carrying was unnecessary. Too much water and if you absolutely have to have the electronics that it had ok but do ya? If you carry the food, it doesn't need the pack anymore really.
3. Get a tent and camp in a quiet open area without people. (You mentioned using a bivy.) People wandering around shelters will do so from random directions and will only stress your dog. The tent will become like home for the dog and it will relax more in its space. Dogs like to den, it's why crating works. You could also use a small tarp to shape a small pyramid shaped doghouse for the dog.
4. Take a long midday break. Let the dog have a doggie nap. Do you have a pad for the dog? It will learn to recognize the pad as a sleep spot.
5. You may need to take zeros more frequently to give the dog a good mental rest.

Thank you for the well-structured answer and suggestions. In order of your posting:

1) We've settled around 10-12 miles per day right now, which seems to be *just right*.

2) Dropped his weight significantly. I've got all his food now, and he's only carrying half as much water (1 quart total). He seems *much* happier with this.

3) Shelters are out of the question now. He has his own pad and I put our tarp up every night regardless of weather. As soon as we stopped using the shelters he has taken to the tarp and pad again, immediately lying on/under them.

Again, my thanks.

just curious Bemental, feel free to tell me to bug ger off if you like but what service does the dog help you with?

Dog is an alert dog for PTSD, also trained to intervene in anxious/high-stress/anger situations.

I'm disturbed that your FIRST concern isn't the safety of other people. You need to remove your dog from the trail until the time when it's properly trained. That might be never, depending on the dog, on you, and on the trainer. Your hike is not more important than the physical safety of other people.

Agreed.

[rickb]

I absolutely agree. The only reason I've been in any shelters at all is because my air mattress caught a hole I c
I'm stuck in a catch 22. I can't be out here without the dog's help, but having the dog out here is changing the essence of the dog's behavioral being while on the trail.

Hang in there. The dog snapped and growled and you are working on it. It didn't bite anyone, right?

I expect that you have found an new mattress by now, so you are probably already on a good path.

As for the dog's disposition, it sort of sounds like some people I know after a crappy day at work. Are you still having the dog carry 16 pounds? Perhaps cutting that back to nothing could help (and couldn't hurt).

[No Directions]

Not talking Service Dogs who are trained to a higher level, but if my dog behaved the way you are talking, I would stay away from the people he snapped at/growled at. He has some clue as to their intentions,

That's total BS. Show me credible scientific proof that dogs have a sixth sense and can somehow peer into the future and predict what someone is going to do in the future. They are animals with personalities just like people and sometimes they just don't like someone.

[OCDave]

That's total BS. Show me credible scientific proof that dogs have a sixth sense and can somehow peer into the future and predict what someone is going to do in the future. They are animals with personalities just like people and sometimes they just don't like someone.

Expand your mind. Magical sixth sense? Not necessarily, perhaps just a higher level of percetion to changes in scent, vibrations, the sound of an owner's breathing perhaps even the sound of a change in it's owner's heart beat.

There is a lot of cool stuff in the world if you open your eyes and allow you mind to consider what you see.

[kayak karl]

Expand your mind. Magical sixth sense? Not necessarily, perhaps just a higher level of percetion to changes in scent, vibrations, the sound of an owner's breathing perhaps even the sound of a change in it's owner's heart beat.

There is a lot of cool stuff in the world if you open your eyes and allow you mind to consider what you see.

or maybe the dog is tired, confused and pissed. longest walk its ever been on and maybe misses its home.

[OCDave]

or maybe the dog is tired, confused and pissed. longest walk its ever been on and maybe misses its home.

Sorry Karl but, I thnk you missed my point: Service dogs can genuinely benefit indiviuals with emotional or psychiatric afflictions as much as those with more obvious physical afflictions.

[2015 Lady Thru-Hiker]

That's total BS. Show me credible scientific proof that dogs have a sixth sense and can somehow peer into the future and predict what someone is going to do in the future. They are animals with personalities just like people and sometimes they just don't like someone.

Dogs are being used to alert people that their blood sugar is dropping too low, they are getting ready to have a seizure and have shown the ability to detect early stage cancers. They may not necessarily have a "sixth sense" but seem to be more in tune to changes in peoples chemical and electrical physiology, as well as posturing and body language. Whatever it may be I know people that are grateful for the peace of mind and confidence it gives them to have their dog around to alert them to get help while they can when they would otherwise be alone. And I have seen for myself the calming effect a service dog can have on someone confused and/or agitated.

[No Directions]

Dogs are being used to alert people that their blood sugar is dropping too low, they are getting ready to have a seizure and have shown the ability to detect early stage cancers. They may not necessarily have a "sixth sense" but seem to be more in tune to changes in peoples chemical and electrical physiology, as well as posturing and body language. Whatever it may be I know people that are grateful for the peace of mind and confidence it gives them to have their dog around to alert them to get help while they can when they would otherwise be alone. And I have seen for myself the calming effect a service dog can have on someone confused and/or agitated.

Yep. But OCDave said " He has some clue as to their intentions". That's what I called bs to.

[OCDave]

Yep. But OCDave said " He has some clue as to their intentions". That's what I called bs to.

OK. I had to go back and read the referenced post several times. I now understand what you meant.

My apologies.

[kayak karl]

No you missed my point. OP says dog is pointing out shady people and you people with bad intent, but as I agree with you a dog great abilities in detecting things we can't I don't think it is the case here. I don't think the dog knows it's on a thru hike and is very confused of the boundaries it is to protect as they change daily, if not hourly.

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[OCDave]

No you missed my point. OP says dog is pointing out shady people and you people with bad intent, but as I agree with you a dog great abilities in detecting things we can't I don't think it is the case here. I don't think the dog knows it's on a thru hike and is very confused of the boundaries it is to protect as they change daily, if not hourly.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Yeah, I guess I am still missing the point. Quoting my post implies you were responding directly to my statement. That doesn't seem to be the case. If so, sorry, I'm a little dense.

[Rocket Jones]

...If so, sorry, I'm a little dense.

My dog assures me that you didn't intend to be.

[Scrum]

I saw this entry over on TJs and thought the perspective of a hiker who was snapped at by a dog might be worth adding here. http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=485030. Probably not the same person involved in the incident in this thread as it mentions dogs (plural). Not a lot of discussion over her incident, but it clearly was upsetting and may have caused her and her hiking partner to move on from the shelter.