Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 93
  1. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-13-2017
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    51
    Posts
    203

    Default

    I attended a Wilderness First Aid course last weekend. The instructor reported several real-world scenarios. One was a group day-hiking a popular 8-ish mile trail in the Shenandoahs. Lady fell and busted up her leg about 4 miles up the trail on the way out, about 2:30 in the afternoon.

    No cell service.

    Someone walked out to find help, lucked up and met a ranger within 30 minutes.

    It was 12:30 the next morning before they got her to the trailhead.

    You can't be prepared for everything, but you can be prepared enough to avoid becoming another patient, even on a short day hike.

  2. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    03-08-2014
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Age
    61
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by at_travis View Post
    Sounds like a good list to get people to buy things...

    Equipment can not replace knowledge.
    1+


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  3. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KCNC View Post
    I attended a Wilderness First Aid course last weekend. The instructor reported several real-world scenarios. One was a group day-hiking a popular 8-ish mile trail in the Shenandoahs. Lady fell and busted up her leg about 4 miles up the trail on the way out, about 2:30 in the afternoon.

    No cell service.

    Someone walked out to find help, lucked up and met a ranger within 30 minutes.

    It was 12:30 the next morning before they got her to the trailhead.

    You can't be prepared for everything, but you can be prepared enough to avoid becoming another patient, even on a short day hike.
    What exactly is the lesson here? What should have been done differently?

  4. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-13-2017
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    51
    Posts
    203

    Default

    The lesson is to be prepared for unexpected circumstances, even if you're going on a short hike and expect to be home for dinner.

    Have some snacks, a light, a jacket, etc. - you don't need 50 lbs of equipment, but a few basic items in case things go south.

    If you end up weak and hypothermic with no way to see your way down the trail after dark then you aren't any good to anyone, you just became another liability - on top of the person who is already hurt.

    As I said - you can't be prepared for everything, but you can be prepared enough to avoid becoming another patient.

  5. #45
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-18-2012
    Location
    Dark Side of the Moon
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,443
    Journal Entries
    6

    Default

    I feel that day hikers should carry the following in order of importance: Water, food/energy bars, Shelter of some type (could even be a cheap orange/shiny emergency blanket), some means to start a fire, rain jacket and warm clothes.
    Blackheart

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    09-28-2017
    Location
    Rochester, New York
    Posts
    16

    Default

    And don't forget about warm clothing - cold weather gloves, socks, etc.

  7. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    09-03-2018
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    22
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I think, you've collected a good list

  8. #48
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Upper East Side of Texas
    Age
    72
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    One more time.
    The 10 Sssentials.
    They are still essential.
    Wayne

  9. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    07-21-2014
    Location
    Bar Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    One more time.
    The 10 Sssentials.
    They are still essential.
    Wayne
    And letís not forget navigation tools.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #50
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-01-2014
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    One more time.
    The 10 Sssentials.
    They are still essential.
    Sorry, but you just picked a pet peeve of mine.

    The ten essentials are NOT essential. The ten essentials is a nice reminder list of gear or gear categories that should be seriously considered if you want to be prepared for a wide range of unexpected surprises when spending time in the back country. THEY ARE NOT ESSENTIAL!!

    What do you think? Should we spend a few minutes shredding the "essential" idea of the ten essentials?

    1) The 10 essentials won't keep you safe without the knowledge to use them wisely and effectively. So, suggesting that there are 10 essentials leads some people to think carrying such gear will keep them safe. IT WONT!

    2) If you have the knowledge to use the 10 essentials wisely and effectively, you probably also have the knowledge to prune that list significantly depending on the type of trip you are taking, when you are going, how long you are going for, and where you are going.

    3) The idea of the 10 essentials is focused primarily on day hiking or climbing since most of those essentials are automatically included for most all overnight trips. And frankly, a key point of the 10 essentials is being able to unexpectedly spend the night safely if you have to.

    4) If we're talking day hikes, weather forecasts in some areas during some times of the year make the idea of hauling rain gear, shelter, and extra clothing just plain silly.

    5) Nobody has died due to a lack of having an extra day of food while waiting for a rescue.

    6) I don't need to carry water at all on trips where there is ample water along route.

    7) I don't need to carry a map and/or compass in an area with straight forward topography that I hike regularly and know every trail in. . . although, I do almost always carry a map on compass.

    8) I rarely carry any form of fire starter on a day hike unless it is winter. What is this obsession we have about being able to start a fire, especially in the middle of summer??!!

    9) If we are concerned about safety, why haven't we updated the 10 essentials list to included electronic communication which has been transformative in saving lives in the back country with the advent of those new portable gadgets like cell phones and Satellite communicators and Personal Locator Beacons. Not to mention, if we added electronic communication to the 10 essentials we'd drive a lot of business and development money into that segment of the outdoor industry.

    10) Why in the world isn't knowledge and training #1 on the ten essentials list. It's so, so much more useful than any of the other ten essential items, all of which are useful, just not essential.

  11. #51
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    626

    Default

    It's still a good framework for considering whether you have your "bases covered." So hydration IS essential, but as you note, if there's ample water about, you simply check that off (and consider carrying a filter). It's still worth putting hydration on a list, just so that you have your plan for that figured out.

    Some lists of essentials, e.g., REI, have gone from prescribing specific items, to recommending having a system or plan for a given category (hydration, illumination, insulation, navigation, etc).

    The understanding and skill of using items you bring is implied; it does not need to be on the list as an item, IMO.

    Electronics can be considered tools that meet one or more of the categories - navigation & illumination, for instance. One should be aware of their limitations, however. Batteries run down. The unit (or charger) may fail, either through blunt-force damage or component failure.

    Anyway, while I agree that it's unnecessary to mindlessly pack a list of prescribed essentials for every situation, I do think going through a checklist of systems or categories is helpful in thinking through what you might need for a given hike if you get lost or hurt.

  12. #52

    Default

    Quote:Most cases of hypothermia, during any season, occur when people are working or playing outdoors. In the summertime, hikers often fall prey to hypothermia because they fail to dress appropriately and plan for changes in the weather. This is especially true for those who set out to hike on mountainous trails. When the weather is hot and clear at the base of a mountain, people mistakenly believe it will also be hot and clear near the top, or will remain so throughout a long day of hiking.Heading up a long trail on a hot day wearing nothing but a pair of light shorts and a cotton t-shirt may seem like a good idea, but it can take as little as a heavy fog or a cool afternoon rain shower to create a life-threatening situation. Without a waterproof jacket, you can quickly become soaked through by cold rain or mist and get chilled. Because natural fabrics, like cotton, take a long time to dry, it can take hours to warm up — sometimes hours too long. There have even been reports of unexpected snowstorms claiming hikers’ lives in late spring and early summer.

  13. #53

  14. #54
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-01-2014
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    Quote:Most cases of hypothermia, during any season, occur when people are working or playing outdoors.
    Now that's just plain brilliant! I thought it only occured indoors.


    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    In the summertime, hikers often fall prey to hypothermia because they fail to dress appropriately and plan for changes in the weather.
    And, that gets to the point that knowledge is far more important than the gear, and basic knowledge and skills should really be #1 and #2. In the above cases, the ten essentials might have helped some people by encouraging them to bring warm cloths and rain gear. But then, the ten essentials is essentially a soundbite about being prepared. Taking the soundbite at face value, I can still die while bring all the extra warm cotton cloths, a tent I don't know how to set up, waterproof matches that don't help if I'm not really darn good at building a fire in the pouring rain (most people aren't), and a map and compass that I don't know how to use.

    And, to reiterate the outdatedness of the ten essentials, if we are really using them as a guide for safe mountain travel, they really should to include electronic communication, as electronic communication devices have saved far more lives in the back country than an extra day of food, waterproof matches, or probably even a knife.

    That being said, I often travel in the back country without electronic communication, without and extra day of food, without matches, and without a shelter. I do so rarely without a weather forecast however. I do it a lot. I'm still here. And, I have helped manage other people's emergency situations on multiple occasions without issue due to my choice of "essentials" that I do or don't take. In fact, I can't think of a time ever that I wished I had an "essential" that I didn't have. On the other hand, I have often wished I had and number of non-essentials that would have made my time more fun, more comfortable, or more adventurous.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  15. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    4) If we're talking day hikes, weather forecasts in some areas during some times of the year make the idea of hauling rain gear, shelter, and extra clothing just plain silly.
    Except when it doesn't.

    Weather can develop on a day hike with a forecast of sunny skies and 80 degrees that can cause people to leave rain gear and/or clothing that can keep you warm behind. I have had cloudbursts develop over me despite weather forecasts, some of them stalling over the area and brought temperatures down from the 80s into the 50s with a fairly stiff wind that exacerbated the condition.

    These cloudbursts don't sound serious in casual discussion and are easily discounted as inconveniences, not how dangerous can they be in late July. These types of weather evens are not usually forecasted, will turn a dry trail slippery very quickly. Coupled with unsure footing, the potential of an accident increases greatly with wind driven rain impairing vision, which can lead to slips and falls. Fall by yourself and break a bone, hypothermia becomes a very real threat. Having been in those conditions before, it is impressive how fast the human body goes from hot to very cold.

    Experience being the best teacher, its rare that I don't carry a shirt and/or rain jacket even on day hikes.

  16. #56
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-01-2014
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Weather can develop on a day hike with a forecast of sunny skies and 80 degrees that can cause people to leave rain gear and/or clothing that can keep you warm behind. I have had cloudbursts develop over me despite weather forecasts, some of them stalling over the area and brought temperatures down from the 80s into the 50s with a fairly stiff wind that exacerbated the condition.
    Of course it can. And frankly, that is the danger of this discussion. As you say yourself, it is rare that you don't take extra clothing or rain-gear, but, there are apparently times when you probably prudently choose not to. And, I guess that is what I am getting at with my criticism of the soundbite nature of "The 10 Essentials". They are not essential, but they are absolutely wise to consider for every trip along with a good trip plan and telling people where you are going, practices which I almost, but not quite always adhear to.

    So, in the end, I'm not interested in doing away with the 10 essentials. BUT, I do think they need to be treated with less dogmatic rhetoric and included in a broader discussion of being prepared and managing risk. In other words, the ten essentials are absolutely NOT essential and they DO NOT stand up on their own without a broader, knowledge driven context.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  17. #57
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Upper East Side of Texas
    Age
    72
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    If ONE Flatland Rubbernecker survives their own ignorance because they had the foresight to carry most, if not all, of the 10 items then I believe that the concept is worthwhile.
    It is a matter for individuals to decide.
    YMMV.
    Wayne
    PS:
    Iím reminded of the group of college age individuals who were rescued from themselves on the AT after a winter snowfall. In February I believe.
    Who knew that it could snow above 5,000í at night in February?
    A member of the group said, and Iím paraphrasing, ďWe couldnít find any water. There was snow everywhere.Ē
    You canít fix stupid.
    Carry what you want.
    Cheers!

  18. #58
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-12-2002
    Location
    Marlboro, MA
    Posts
    6,693
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    1

    Default

    I thought of this thread over the weekend while reading a list that a hostel had posted by their sign up sheet for those slacking over the Kinsman ridge.

    Since they drop/pick up hikers (thrus mostly) at both ends, I asked what they did if hikers failed to show up for their ride. Seems it doesnít happen very often, but the hostel manager did end up putting together a crew to rescue one idiot SOBO in a storm who started his slack very late, without a flashlight, warm clothes or rain gear.

    After hearing that, I donít blame them a bit for posting the reminder about taking some essential gear.

  19. #59
    illabelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-25-2012
    Location
    Lurkerville, East Tn
    Age
    59
    Posts
    3,118
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    Sorry, but you just picked a pet peeve of mine.

    4) If we're talking day hikes, weather forecasts in some areas during some times of the year make the idea of hauling rain gear, shelter, and extra clothing just plain silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Except when it doesn't. ....
    I think the key to understanding Nsherry's statement is "some areas" "some times of the year."

    Most of us understand that there are some places (like big mountains) where sudden weather changes can increase the risk level at any time of year. Be prepared.

    On the other hand, if I am day-hiking a familiar, low elevation trail in summertime temps of 80į and higher with a calm dry forecast, I can leave the rain gear, tent, and jacket behind. In that situation, packing the 10 essentials without considering whether they're actually needed simply because they're on a list is "just plain silly." All he's suggesting is to use our brains.

  20. #60
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Upper East Side of Texas
    Age
    72
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    On second thought...
    The Terminally Clueless wonít know that a list of 10 Essentials exists. They wonít be prepared for anything.
    Carry on.
    Wayne

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •