The end of "HYOH"

[DavidNH]

jdc5294 someone smoking in proximity annoys the hell out of me. It stinks and it is second hand smoke which is not good for my health and is not why I go out there. Someone taking a couple sips of liquor isn't a big deal to me whereas a crowd of hikers cracking open a whole bunch of six packs and getting roudy is extremely annoying and rude. In my entire life I've never seen as many smokers and heavy drinkers as I have along the AT.

[Connie]

"In my entire life I've never seen as many smokers and heavy drinkers as I have along the AT."

Quite a few years ago, we had that at the end of dirt roads. Usually underage kids.

Is this at the shelters? Is this "on the trail"?

[Sandy of PA]

Yes, at the shelters, one more reason I love my tent!

[BaxterBear]

I can confirm that during my thru hike I encountered a tremendous amount of smokers and it greatly surprised me. I quickly learned that shelter sleeping was taking away enjoyment of the trail. Consistently, addicted smokers would wake up at night and smoke right in their sleeping bags, with the toxic smoke blowing over the sleeping hikers.

At first I always confronted them but soon realized that they had no interest in changing when all they would say to me after I voiced my concerns is HYOH and walk away. I was also told HYOH when I tried to educate fellow hikers about garbage in fire pits, correct use of privies, not sharing gorp with bare hands to try to mitigate the trail sickness that was going on that year, etc.

So I am sharing my experience with people using HYOH as a dismissive statement to defend what many see as bad behavior but to them it's perfectly ok.

My my enjoyment improved greatly when I just used shelters to cook and socialize, water up, then hike a little ways down the trail often backwards southbound so no one would bother me in the AM as they hiked on. I never rested better that I have when I was in that tent. You get the positive socialization and cooking space from shelters but avoid all the negative aspects of them. Was never bothered by mice again either.

[DavidNH]

I've seen tons of hikers smoking in or around shelters, a couple while hiking and boy at hostels. I remember staying in Gorham, NH at Hiker's paradise. It's a hostel and a bunch of hotel rooms (actually motel.. door opens to outside. I saw several a couple people sitting in chair right outside their motel room chain smoking and drinking alcohol in between puffs. One hand smokes, other hand brings up cup of alcohol. This more than anything else is just plain sad. They are 1) destroying their health, 2) more than offsetting any health benefits their hike may provide, and 3) not setting a good example for anyone.

But back to topic at hand.. tenting is a good one way to get away from these nuts. Trouble is.. there isn't always good tenting spots closeby shelters--within .5 mile or so.

[Coffee]

It is true that one of the few remaining places where you see athletic activity coupled with smoking is in the backpacking world. But it seems to be more of an AT thing. I haven't seen much smoking out west, at least not cigarette smoking...

[Starchild]

I can confirm that during my thru hike I encountered a tremendous amount of smokers and it greatly surprised me. I quickly learned that shelter sleeping was taking away enjoyment of the trail. Consistently, addicted smokers would wake up at night and smoke right in their sleeping bags, with the toxic smoke blowing over the sleeping hikers.

At first I always confronted them but soon realized that they had no interest in changing when all they would say to me after I voiced my concerns is HYOH and walk away.....

I was greatly surprised at the number of smokers on the trail, and the trail magic of tobacco offered them. Did not however experience the problem you mentioned, most were considerate to start with, all were responsive to requests.

And it does not need saying that as this is preaching to the choir here, when they say HYOH in such a response it is exactly the opposite of what they are doing, by smoking in a full shelter they are forcing you to hike their hike and not allowing you to HYOH.

[gsingjane]

I had a couple of observations to contribute, based on my short-ish immersion in the thru-hiker pack of 2014 last summer.

Whether I like it or not, the old-school hiker - the guy or gal who comes out of a Scouting background or outdoorsy childhood, who just truly loves nature, can identify the trees and wildlife and bugs, who would go out hiking in a vacant lot if there was nothing else on offer - that person is pretty hard to find nowadays, at least doing a thru-hike.

And, I find the comments about drug, alcohol, and cigarette use to be right on-point. I am certainly no "babe in the woods" when it comes to drug use (I'm not any kind of babe, sad to say) but, I did observe a strikingly large number of hikers who appeared to use the thru-hike as a 6-month long reason to indulge, and who might be well-advised to seriously re-evaluate their substance use in the future. It was explained to me as "killing the pain" or "killing the boredom," but if you have to stay stoned to endure something, maybe that something isn't for you. Maybe it was just where I was, the middle portion of the hike, but the number of thrus I met who hiked, essentially, from one trail town/getting trashed opportunity to another was... pretty substantial. And, as someone who doesn't indulge, it felt a lot like being back in high school, and not in a good way.

Second, and I have not seen this addressed specifically, what I also feel is a major change to trail culture is the influence of the ultra- or extreme sports mentality, made possible of course by greatly lightened gear and knowledge of UL practices. I understand that people do have to make big miles to accomplish a thru-hike, but it also seems to me that there has been a large increase in the number of people who look at hiking the AT primarily as an athletic or endurance sport, rather than a nature or camping-focused endeavor. And, that view also could lead to a more careless approach to the environment (e.g., when you are running a marathon, you pitch your gel packs or used cups). I am sure this isn't the vast majority of "ultra-users" but it might account for some of the same attitude.... at that level you're just trying to survive, and the aesthetic issues become secondary at best.

Would it change the approach of trail monitors and overseers, to better understand the thru-hiker population? I would say, yes - to know that many folks are looking at a thru-hike as a "one and done" or "bucket list" activity, rather than a life-long pastime or commitment, does imply that different tools and approaches will be needed to reach many of the folks involved and affected. If people are motivated by different things than they used to be, this will affect planning, communications, and especially incentives to encourage what we might consider "good" or "pro-social" behavior.

Jane

[Coffee]

I don't understand the motivation for substance abuse on the trail. It makes hiking harder, not easier, and if an escape from a hike is desired, then maybe a zero day is in order or maybe the person isn't enjoying the hike and should stop. Smoking, in any form, seems particularly perverse given that it reduces lung capacity which makes hiking harder. But I don't really care if people smoke as long as they are considerate.

[Starchild]

I feel we need to reanalyze the definition of HYOH and express it differently, stress the 'Your' part. Meaning hike a hike that does not influence or detract from others. May your hike yours and do not force others to hike your hike.

IMHO this is the only way HYOH is sustainable.

[Dadburnet]

Bill Harris is a good man.

[Dadburnet]

Bill Harris is a good man.

That is the Simple living guy that shuttled you from Damascus.

[Nooga]

I don't understand the motivation for substance abuse on the trail. It makes hiking harder, not easier, and if an escape from a hike is desired, then maybe a zero day is in order or maybe the person isn't enjoying the hike and should stop. Smoking, in any form, seems particularly perverse given that it reduces lung capacity which makes hiking harder. But I don't really care if people smoke as long as they are considerate.

I agree. Don't understand it, but don't care if they are considerate.

[Tipi Walter]

All this talk of the negatories of the AT reminds me that the AT is just a fraction of a trail surrounded by thousands of miles of other trails. Smokers, drunks, dopers, Ultralight wannabe olympians, bonfire fanatics, rat-box shelter lovers, smug trail gurus---all this can be avoided by seeking out other trails.

If you want a nature experience and not a social experience, go elsewhere. Use the AT only to link up other trails. Avoid the rat-box shelters as you would avoid a nest of brown recluse spiders. No one is forcing another person to hike the AT in April. There's a vast national forest area from Georgia to Tennessee and North Carolina and Virginia. It's called the Nantahala and the Cherokee and the Jefferson and the Chattahoocee and the Croatan and the Daniel Boone and the Francis Marion and the George Washington and the Monongahela and the Pisgah and the Sumter and the Uwharrie National Forests.

[Slo-go'en]

I always get a kick out of people complaining about tobacco smoke but think nothing of the smoke from a smoldering camp fire which is way worse for you. Sure the tobacco smoke is annoying, but unlike a camp fire it doesn't last long.

[Lone Wolf]

Let's discuss the term Hike Your Own Hike. Or HYOH.

the term started in late 80s-early 90s. it's pretty much what blue-blazers would say to purists when the purists would give you crap for missing some white blazes. now the term means all kinds of things. just like trail magic and trail angels. these terms don't mean what they used to

[Praha4]

HYOH usually means you hike your own pace, with your preferred gear, you do not have to spend the entire day hiking together with that "other" person. Nowadays it seems to be an excuse given by bratty thru hikers to behave like they the entire AT is just another scene from the movie "Animal House".

[JumpMaster Blaster]

I like the sound of this....I met a guy who lived just outside Damascus doing this...he shuttled me for MRO....interesting character...very friendly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I met that guy...

[Grampie]

the term started in late 80s-early 90s. it's pretty much what blue-blazers would say to purists when the purists would give you crap for missing some white blazes. now the term means all kinds of things. just like trail magic and trail angels. these terms don't mean what they used to

We live in a changing world. Unfortunately the traditional thru-hiker from the 80s has also changed. Then it was a time to do a adventure that took you outdoors to enjoy nature. Today it means "it's one long party."

[freightliner]

the term started in late 80s-early 90s. it's pretty much what blue-blazers would say to purists when the purists would give you crap for missing some white blazes. now the term means all kinds of things. just like trail magic and trail angels. these terms don't mean what they used to

Mr. wolf you've been around long enough to know who started this whole thing its all about Wingfoot. He wanted the hikers who walked every mile of trail in one go to be the only ones called thru hikers. In reality it doesn't matter how you thru the trail long as you go from one end to the other. They HYOH him right out of the AT trail community. There will never be a right way or wrong way to hike the trail and I also think they'll never be too many hikers. There will be a lot more talk about leave no trace and hike with harmony. The thru party hike must stop and it is up to the ATC to make it happen. In all fairness I find it is the weekend campers that do the most damage. I will also throw in the homeless hikers too. They always seem to leave a pile of garbage behind. They also don't leave until all the wood in the area is burned up.