Handling Water/Food weight with UL Packs on PCT

[Coffee]

It could be because Yogi's guide no longer offers information on water caches, but I'm having trouble getting my mind around how hikers with UL packs manage the water situation on parts of the PCT in Southern California. It seems to me that if a hiker is NOT relying on any water caches (which seems prudent), there are many places where 6 or even 8 liters of water might be necessary leaving a water source. If you couple this with a segment like Tehachapi to Kennedy Meadows that might require 6-7 days of food it is easy to see how consumables alone could approach 25-30 pounds! When I add this figure to my current base weight of slightly under 15 pounds, I'm looking at total possible weight of 40-45 pounds, in theory, although probably for short stretches. That's well above what my ULA Circuit can reasonably handle, more than I've ever carried, and the problem would seem to be true for almost all other UL packs. This has me thinking about actually adding 10 ounces or so in base weight to move to the ULA Catalyst which has a better chance of standing up under the loads, probably keeping the Catalyst through the Sierras and then switching back to the Circuit around Lake Tahoe. I feel that I could offset this 10 ounces elsewhere in my base weight (although I could do the same with the Circuit, so that's really a separate move).

Now I realize that water caches WILL be available in certain areas and since I'm starting before kick off, my GUESS is that I will likely be able to take advantage of caches, but is it prudent to rely on them? Would certain risk mitigation strategies such as night hiking, if needed, make it more responsible to rely on caches since then it would be possible to hike in cooler conditions to the next water source if a cache is dry?

I had the ULA Catalyst prior to the Circuit and definitely prefer the way the Circuit feels but the Catalyst wasn't bad either, at least on the few occasions I used it prior to selling it.

[jawnzee]

Tank up at water sources, don't hike in the heat of the day, lighter pack often relates to higher mileage. But yeah, leaving Tehatchapi/Mohave was pretty brutal. But honestly, you just deal with it. By that time you're pretty trail hardened, and the water weight starts to go away after a few hours.

[Miner]

If I had a baseweight of 15lbs, a ULA Catalyst would be appropriate. When I hiked the PCT, I had a baseweight of around 12-13 lbs (I dropped a pound the first week) and found a ULA Circuit to be more than enough to handle the weight (it was often too big north of Lake Tahoe). Today, I would feel comfortable hiking the PCT with my ULA CDT pack now that my baseweight is close to 9 lbs as I regularly carry 4L with 6 days of food in it. Some comfort issues can be resolved by changing how you pack. Eliminate dead space to make a pack more rigid will allow for better weight transfer to the hipbelt.

For the PCT, I normally carried 4.5L of water in SoCal with one carry of 6L. But if we have another dry year next year, I'd carry more as some reliable water sources around here dried up this year so if we don't get enough rain to replenish them, it's going to get worse next year. Download the PCT water reports off the web before you start and then update the information 2 weeks later in Big Bear so you can plan accurately how much water to carry. Please email in some updates to the water reports so it remains accurate for the hikers behind you. The reports are only as accurate as the hikers submitting reports make it. Don't be part of the problem by not sending in updates like most hikers do. You should not be planning water caches as part of your carry. With the large increase in hikers, being behind a large wave could empty the cache you were planning on before it can be restocked. Restocking is by volunteers so you can't count on them doing it all the time. Even at the famous 3rd Gate Cache, I carried enough water that I could have made the next natural water source even if I was a little thirsty. I did encouter a cache that was empty when I hiked but I had enough water so I was fine. In some of the places where water caches exist, there were alternative water sources but they would require hiking off trail for a short ways so the caches are more convenience rather then necessity. Talking to past thru-hikers from prior to the 2000's, they go what water cache? So you can hike the trail without using them as we have it easy compared to them.

Avoid hiking during the heat of the day (on days that are hot) to reduce your need for water. Consider stopping between 11-3pm when you find some shade and finish your remaining miles in the late afternoon or evening. Get hiking by the time there is barely enough light to see. This allows you do your biggest miles during the cool of the morning and reduces your need for water. I find that I hike faster in the morning as my body isn't having to work hard trying to cool me at the same time. Consider hiking into the night a few hours or get up really early in the dark to start hiking (using that siesta during the heat of the day to catch up on some of your lost sleep). To get off the Mojave desert floor along the LA aquaduct before it got hot, I was hiking by 3am. For the hot exposed section into Aqua Dulce, I was hiking around 4am (though part of my motivation was to make town by lunch). Those were the only times I did any night hiking, but I also often had unusually cooler then normal weather during my time hiking between the I-15 and Kennedy Meadows.

[10-K]

You'll manage. Keep a current copy of Halfmile's water report handy. When you get to a source, make a plan to get to your next source - that's it. I'd recommend having the capacity to carry 8 quarts if necessary.

[Dogwood]

At the Kick Off they hand out water reports sometimes including when and where caches are stocked /restocked. Some of the people who maintain the water caches will be at the Kick Off. ASK. At the PCT website updated water reports for various sources(not just caches) are found. It is encouraged that PCTers make waer updates.

[Dogwood]

At some pt you just gotta go hike and not overthink every detail. Have confidence in yourself that you'll figure some things out enroute. It is wahat happens on EVERY long distance hike. You have to manage your hike and yourself. It's part of tru-hiking. You don't need to know, even if you could, every single possible detail on thru-hiking the PCT to thru the PCT.

[10-K]

At some pt you just gotta go hike and not overthink every detail. Have confidence in yourself that you'll figure some things out enroute. It is wahat happens on EVERY long distance hike. You have to manage your hike and yourself. It's part of tru-hiking. You don't need to know, even if you could, every single possible detail on thru-hiking the PCT to thru the PCT.

You just called me out for saying essentially the same thing...

I would just add that if somebody wants to really OD on pct planning - join the Facebook PCT 2015 group. No shortage of people who will think you're doing it right/wrong there!!!


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[Dogwood]

I know. I think you can handle it though. I thought what I said was called for at the time - for the OP. Ask me later. Things may change though.

[Coffee]

I probably am overplanning but of all the conditions I'll face, desert hiking is where I have the least experience. I'm actually not planning to map out much, if anything, beyond Kennedy Meadows. I'm familiar with the Sierra (although not with snow) and pretty much anything I plan for beyond the Sierra will be obsolete by the time I get there.

The Facebook group is definitely pretty noisy. I trust the opinions I'm getting here much more.

[10-K]

Coffee, just to be clear - what I'm saying is that I think you have more than enough experience to hike the PCT - I'm not even remotely trying to belittle your planning efforts. I apologize if I'm coming across that way.

[burger]

One thing to remember about the PCT is that heavy food/water carries are always temporary. You will drink your water down as the day goes along, and you will consume your food as the section goes along. Also, PCT grades are nice and gentle, so you won't be scaling any cliffs with all that weight like you might on the AT.

Worst-case scenario, your UL pack isn't up to the weight, and you end up with a saggy pack and some weight on your shoulders. Not comfortable, but hardly anything to worry about. You'll be in great shape by the time you get to the Tehachapis and some of the other sections with big carries.

[Coffee]

Coffee, just to be clear - what I'm saying is that I think you have more than enough experience to hike the PCT - I'm not even remotely trying to belittle your planning efforts. I apologize if I'm coming across that way.

No offense taken at all. My overplanning at the moment is probably a function of overdosing on Yogi's guidebook which is quite overwhelming with all the details.

[Coffee]

Worst-case scenario, your UL pack isn't up to the weight, and you end up with a saggy pack and some weight on your shoulders. Not comfortable, but hardly anything to worry about. You'll be in great shape by the time you get to the Tehachapis and some of the other sections with big carries.

Chris at ULA told me that the chances of pack failure on the Circuit even with excess weight is low so this would be more of a comfort issue. He suggested that I might want to keep an eye on the water situation and if there is another year of sever drought, maybe think about the Catalyst. That makes sense to me. In the meantime, I may excessively load my Circuit and go for an overnight trip just to test it out.

[Malto]

I took 4l water capacity and carried 5 days food on several carries including the section from WS to Big Bear and it fit in my little MLD Burn. It was the carry out of KM that kicked my butt.

The water is always on your mind and at a good source you will think it is the best water you ever had. BUT, I think most first time desert hikers worry too much about water. You won't die from shorting yourself a liter or two. Get an early start and put some miles in during those precious cool morning hours.

[Dogwood]

Sorry 10-K didn't intend that. Right now, I'm not sure who I was saying what to.

FWIW, I'm with 10-K - you'll do fine Coffee. Hiking the PCT isn't brain surgery. Sometimes, we make it more involved than it needs to be though. This includes me doing that!

[Wolf - 23000]

Coffee,

It been several years now sense I've hike the PCT. 1997 was the last time I thru-hike. Back then I used a book bag, something you could pick up at Kmart for about $10 - $15. That now 17 years ago. Equipment is now a LOT lighter. My point being is you don't need that much to hike the PCT. Back in the 1990s, there were no water catches. A simple way to deal with water is what time of day you are hiking.

If you hike: 8 A.M. - 5 P.M., then of course you are going to carry a lot of water. You are hiking during the hotest part of the day. What do you expect?

Or if you hike half-way to the water source, make camp. Leave camp around 7 A.M., hit the water source around noon. Stay there and just hydrate, rest. Then after it cools down, hike half way to the next water source. Then you are not going to need to carry as much.

It all about hiking smartly.

Wolf

[Dogwood]

Good pts Wolf-23000 and Malto. Getting a handle on efficient water logistics is part of the wt saving game. That includes hiking smart. And, as Burger said, the extra water wt is only temporary. A ULA Circuit can temporarily exceed it's wt limit given that you aren't already always maxing the wt out.

[burger]

If you hike: 8 A.M. - 5 P.M., then of course you are going to carry a lot of water. You are hiking during the hotest part of the day. What do you expect?

Or if you hike half-way to the water source, make camp. Leave camp around 7 A.M., hit the water source around noon. Stay there and just hydrate, rest. Then after it cools down, hike half way to the next water source. Then you are not going to need to carry as much.

Also, if you're cooking, cook at a water source regardless of what time you're there. When you're doing a big carry, you should never carry your cooking water unless you absolutely have to. This might mean eating your cooked meal at 10 am and then having snack food at dinner time, but it will save a few pounds a day.

[quasarr]

If I did SOCAL over again, I would night hike a lot more. Or at least wake up around 4am, take a nap mid-day, and hike late until 10 or 11pm. I really suffered in the desert heat. (forget 11-3, on the aqueduct outside Hikertown it was unbearably hot by 9am!!!) Luckily, the worst part is "only" the section from Hikertown to KM. Before that, the heat wasn´t so bad except for a few places like San Jacinto and Scissors Crossing. I carried more water than most people, and I usually brought 6L for 20 miles and drank about 5 of that. My biggest carry was 7L on the Hat Creek Rim (30 miles dry if you don´t use the cache). But guess what - I night hiked that section, starting from the water at Subway Cave around 6pm, hiked until 10, slept until 3am, and was off the rim before noon. It was actually really pleasant! The temperature was great at night! I only needed 5 of my 7 liters! (the cache was full but I did not take any water there) One friend who hiked the Rim in the day had to quit the trail because his blisters were so bad from the heat.

Sorry for all the numbers, ha ha! But Coffee, I think you will be fine. My hiking speed is slower than most thrus and I carried more water. (most people only brought 5L for 20 miles) Also I was using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa from 2008, which I had at some point lost the hip belt to. So yeah, it sucked at times but it wasn´t too bad.

As someone else said, my heaviest load was probably in the Sierras. I hiked from Lone Pine to Reds Meadow without resupply, (about 175 miles including Whitney, arrived in Reds on the morning of the 9th day) and all that food plus bear cannister was probably my heaviest pack. Maybe tied with the 6 days of food plus 6L of water leaving Tehachapi. Although in the Sierras there is so much water you only need to carry like 1-2 liters most of the time!! Plus you can slackpack Whitney.

[Coffee]

I like the idea of getting early starts well before sunrise. I'm a morning person normally anyway. I had a few 3-4am starts on the Colorado Trail to deal with expected storms and it worked out well. But on the PCT, I wonder about where people rest or nap midday. I'm sure there are places with shade, but not everywhere so either some planning would be needed in terms of where to stop or maybe an umbrella could be used. I have rarely hiked the evening hours but that seems like a good idea. The key to the late evening and early morning walking seems to be actually getting some rest during the hot mid day hours.