pack wt. winter/spring/summer ?

[squeezebox]

I'm really not trying to be pissy here but !
I really do not understand when folks give a number for their pack wt. This morning I took my gear out of the closet, wanted to know what the whole thing weighed. The temps have dropped so I started with winter gear. 22 lbs or so, I realized I left out a few things, like a gas stove will weigh 2x the weight of a canister stove, not insignificant, but necessary at much below freezing. a couple of other things. I added 2 lbs. 24 lbs guess.
Then I pulled out the winter sleeping bag, added the summer bag difference, 1 lb, pulled out the down jacket and heavy fleece 3 lbs close. and a couple of lesser things. So the summer pack wt. dropped 5 lbs +. Spring wt. probably 1/2 way between.
I added boots, t shirt etc. to get skin out wt. back up to about 24.
So really what are you talking about when you say pack wt? I seems what time of year it is makes a great difference.

[Kerosene]

Yep, time of year can make a huge difference (as does size of person and level of experience). Remember though, it isn't a contest, just a benchmark to help you better understand what might be possible. I always qualify my pack weight with season, and sometimes I will get into gender, body size, and experience level. I believe that it is a much better comparison to include total carry weight cover so many days of supplies rather than just base weight, but as I know the weight of everything I carry I can calculate it however someone wants to see it.

[Sarcasm the elf]

When you see someone list a packweight on here or most other A.T. Forums it's usually safe to assume that they are listing their "three season" pack weight, as that's the popular season for hiking the A.T. Keep in mind that most folks consider early spring and late fall to be winter conditions.
My three season pack weight these days is around 18-25lbs including food and water, my A.T. Winter weight i'm usually carrying around 35lbs, more if I'm in area where i need snowshoes or technical gear.

Two other things that it's worth keeping in mind:
1) A lot of hikers don't go out on overnights in full winter conditions so if you're getting advice from people about winter camping make sure you have an idea of their experience level.
2) In my travels I've noticed that the pack size/weight of the average hiker that is actually out on the A.T. (Both of section hikers and thru hikers) is noticeably larger than the average pack weight stated on this site. Lighter is certainly better, but the 10lb base weights and sub 20lb full pack weights often discussed here are far lower than what your average hiker carries and isn't something to get too hung up about.

[Slo-go'en]

2) In my travels I've noticed that the pack size/weight of the average hiker that is actually out on the A.T. (Both of section hikers and thru hikers) is noticeably larger than the average pack weight stated on this site. Lighter is certainly better, but the 10lb base weights and sub 20lb full pack weights often discussed here are far lower than what your average hiker carries and isn't something to get too hung up about.

I helped load Bob Pease's pick up truck with about 10 packs one morning, packs being shuttled for the slack packers. I was surprised how heavy most of them were, noticeably more then what I had.

[freightliner]

Now I feel like a jerk for calling you pissy I'm sorry. If you don't totally hate me maybe I can help you with that. Go to gear grams.com download the program and and start putting all of your gear on the a spreadsheet. Then every time you go to take a hike you just drag the gear you want to take a hike with and put it on a new spreadsheet. You will see on the spreadsheet that has checkmarks for worn, pack. and consumables so it helps you think about every bit of weight that you going to have. I also make a list of the things that I wish I could have and then usually end up buying it. It's a lot of work but worth it in the end to know what the weight is that you have to carry. Just before you leave to go hiking you print out your list and check off the items as you pack up to make sure you don't leave anything behind. This has helped me tremendously to lose weight and not forget anything at home. Once the spreadsheet is done then you can decide what you want to tell people is your base weigh. Myself I only care about my backpack base weigh.

[Just Bill]

Yar- seasonal qualifiers are very common, occasionally condition/location qualifiers too (don't need a bear can or ice axe in Georgia, but you might on the JMT)

It is not horribly unreasonable to see total weight double from summer to winter.
Something to note when you see some freakishly small summer weight posted by some SUL hiker. I will gladly take weight risks in the relative safety in summer that I would consider suicidal in other seasons.

Everyone's definition varies- but very generally- summer is 50+, three season 30-50 (with expected rain to contend with), winter is freezing and down. These numbers are average lows, so how much you wish to account for that errant 20* night in a three season kit is up to you and your risk tolerance.

[MuddyWaters]

Pack weight, is simply put, your gear weight. Not what you wear. Food and water vary significantly over the course of several days between resupplies, but gear is pretty much constant. Its the constant portion of what you have to carry. Of course, you know how much food you need per day too, so knowing your pack base weight allows you to also know what your pack will likely weigh at any time.

It definitely varies with season. Winter adds several lbs, to many lbs more depending on conditions, length, etc.

Make a spreadsheet, list every single item in your pack, down to rubber bands, ziplocks, etc. Weigh every item, no guessing allowed. No mfg published weights either. If you dont have a scale, go to the post office and use the one there. Total it all up. Then congratulate yourself. Now, you have the tool you need to control your weight. you can see what weighs the most. You can evaluate if you really need an item as well. You can begin to see the possibilities for reducing your own weight within your budget and hiking style.

What it really boils down to , is some smart people figured out years ago what you need to hike safely and comfortably in given conditions. Most things in excess of this, are creature comforts, or due to irrational fears, etc. Thats OK, but the more experience you have, the less some want to carry around stuff they dont really need. Spare clothes for instance, are one of the biggest extra weight in most newbies packs. Ive seen some people hauling a weeks worth of clothing. Seriously. No one ever told them it was normal just to wear the same dirty clothes for a week straight, and they never thought otherwise, that concept was quite foreign to their everyday life. Some like extra clothing, thats fine too, but have to realize that it is mostly not a necessity. When we talk about getting down to really low pack weights, we are talking about just the necessities, and often really minimal amounts of those as well.

I have seen very few lightweight hikers on the AT. Despite a bunch here. Same for any other trail. The lightweight people seem to be more active and enthusiastic about hiking, and seem to participate in online forums more. If you read the JMT facebook page you would think every one had a zpacks tent and backpack, reality is most hikers on the JMT are still pretty darn heavy as well. Although western hikers do seem quite a bit more environmentally aware, politically aware, versed in LNT, and lighter weight minded than your run of the mill AT hiker. Comes from living in a populous state like CA with environmental pressures and a huge # people.

[Wolf - 23000]

Squeezebox,

What you are talking about, I’ve been saying for over 20 years. To me, it shows a serious lack of experience when one hike ask another “What do you carry?” Someone who has hiked any distance is going to know there are so many factors to consider. The time of year, the location, the person body frame, their hiking style and their experience.

Someone hiking at the same time in Georgia, for example, at the same time as someone hiking in the Whites will carry different equipment. Someone who is hiking with a partner will carry different equipment than someone hiking alone. Someone who has hiked thousands of miles is going to handle being in bad weather better than someone who has only hike a couple hundred. Experience also comes into many forms. There are hikers out there that have walked a lot of miles, but had their partner do most of the work for them or other varies reasons.

When I say I carry 1 – 5 pounds, it is including both my summer weight and also my winter weights under most conductions. I weight my pack at the Post Office on the trail, so I can’t take off what I am wearing. I only focus on what I’m carrying excluding the clothes I’m wearing. Nothing in the pockets.

Wolf

[Malto]

I know that I most of the folks I have been hiking with recently are way to the lightweight extreme. Of the four of us on the wonderland trail in October I doubt any were above 10 lbs. But generally the sub 10 base weights will primarily be seen either out west or by very experienced long distance hikers.

A couple other very important points when it comes to pack weight, possibly even more important than season, style. On the wonderland trail we hiked from dark to dark so there was no sitting around camp. This greatly cuts down on the amount of clothing needed even for conditions ranging from rain to snow to wind and cold. I believe you will find hikers with this style are over represented in for example Gossamer gear trail ambassadors. This gives the perception that everyone is running around with this "extreme" gear set. (One thing that interesting was the similarity in gear that all four of had on the WT.)

Second, I believe you will also find a wide range of penalty dealing with conversion from three to four season. This will vary greatly depending on where that fourth season is. My gear change between three in four season is xlite to xtherm for a penalty of 6 oz. heavier gloves, Cap 1 bottoms, waterproof booties and glove shells and insulation sleeves for my water bottles. I am guessing this is a change of about 2 lbs unless microspikes or snowshoes are thrown into the mix. But what does change is how I use my gear. My rain jacket become VBL and my bivy replaces the net inner. These changes along with the extra clothes listed above has allowed me to go just below zero. this was exactly the setup I had on the Whiteblaze Winter trip last year at Harriman.