Im guessing the shelter is on a short spur trail
Im guessing the shelter is on a short spur trail
Trail Miles: 4,980.5
AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
Foothills Trail: 47.9
AT Map 2: 279.4
BMT: 52.7
CDT: 85.4
Yep, it could very well be unlikely timing, but there would still be the notion that no other SOBO's heading to spend the night at Spaulding wouldn't have seen her.
Another thing, trying to put myself back into 'hiker mode'. If Gerry decided to hike on north of Spaulding, given the time of day she would have passed by there, it would be in my mindset to stop there, top off my water and have a little snack break. I'm not saying she would or wouldn't, I could see it playing out that way for me though.
www.postholer.com/Turtle Feet
Follow me as I crawl the A.T.
Life is an adventure or nothing at all ~ Hellen Keller
I know my rule of thumb is if the shelter/ water source is right on the trail I stop. Otherwise I pass it up. And if she left at 7am as stated, and walked evenas slow as 1 mile per hour then she would have been there between 3-4, stilll giving her over 4 hours of daylight left. hard to say
Trail Miles: 4,980.5
AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
Foothills Trail: 47.9
AT Map 2: 279.4
BMT: 52.7
CDT: 85.4
Yeah, I think that's why there was some doubt as to her plans... and the fact that she never signed a register doesn't help. Plus, she was staring down 14 miles (hard miles) the next day, another reason there was thought that she might have tried to move on. No one really knows if she was aware of the heavy rain in the forecast for the next day.
Her hiking partner Kit mentioned that Gerry HATED sleeping alone, and always stopped to sleep at shelters, and something to the effect that she didn't like her tent. Those factors led some to believe that she would have stopped at Spaulding for the night.
www.postholer.com/Turtle Feet
Follow me as I crawl the A.T.
Life is an adventure or nothing at all ~ Hellen Keller
My thoughts exactly in regards to the SOBOs not spotting her at that time. I have not hiked the AT but I have hiked in numerous trails and I step off the trail many times during a hike, whether it's to take care of business (well, well, well off the trail), take photos of a flower or plant, etc. If she did step off the trail and then encountered trouble (a fall, fainting, etc) no one would know.
Last edited by Siarl; 08-01-2014 at 21:14.
I don't know much about Search and Rescue dogs, but I found it odd that they never (as far was we know) assisted the investigators. If she wandered off trail and became disoriented, which seems the likeliest scenario to me, wouldn't you expect them to at least be able to mark the point she exited the trail? How unusual is this?
"To take risks is to live, to be always safe and secure is certain death" - Edward Abbey
Not sure I understand what you mean about not assisting. Dogs were there on the initial search from what I've read.
"wouldn't you expect them to at least be able to mark the point she exited the trail"
Well that depends. I don't know what type of dogs were there. There are several ways dogs are trained. Some are air scent dogs which can follow the scent towards the source as it flows (like water but also effected by wind and humidity) away from someone. Some of these dogs are cadaver dogs trained to alert on a human remains, others are trained to find live victims. Some do both. The live victim good clean scent and with all the people on the trail that would have been difficult for them. The cadaver dogs are not so effected by other people.
Another type of dog are Tracking/Trailing dogs. Most people think of Bloodhounds when they think of tracking dogs but they can be other breeds too. These dogs are very effective at following a certain individual. I don't know if they had a tracking dog there or if they would have helped. If you recall the initial search was further up the trail due to a mistaken ID. Usually searches start at the Point Last Seen which was Poplar LT but searches were going off incorrect information and concentrated the initial search further north. (Correct me if I'm wrong here Turtle Feet)
My experience with these amazing animals is limited. I'm a Scoutmaster of a troop that sometimes assists as "victims" for the local SAR Dog Team. The team trains at our 2,000 acre camp. They like to use our guys since they know the camp and can go to a designated area and hide without worrying about getting lost. Often these trainings are done at night.
"Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011
That’s my understanding too Don – about the “point last seen”. Even in the Northwoods Law episode, you see the ground search efforts focused around the Barnjum Rd. area – around 5 miles or so north of her actual PLS.
The reason for the search being focused there was not just the miss-identification by the three SOBO boys, but I think initially by the “mystery caller” stating that she spent that Tues. night with Gerry at Spaulding – to me that’s still an incredibly suspicious detail.
Don, you also made a good point regarding the scent of a decaying body (human or animal). It’s been almost 10 years since my summers doing research up on Isle Royale NP, but our job was basically to go backcountry and bring back decaying moose parts. After 10 years, that smell is still with me. It’s so pungent – there’s really nothing else that comes close. Once you’ve had your nose in a decaying moose, you’ll never forget that smell.
It’s really not possible for Gerry to be so close to the trail, deceased, and not have someone report a foul odor. (I’m not meaning any disrespect here, just making a point). I still hear people comment that she could have been right off the trail and not be seen. True, she may not have been visually spotted, but given the intense search by volunteers on foot – not to mention the hundreds of hikers that passed through there in the following weeks knowing that there could have been a deceased hiker nearby – I really struggle with the idea that she was laying there within a few yards of the trail.
www.postholer.com/Turtle Feet
Follow me as I crawl the A.T.
Life is an adventure or nothing at all ~ Hellen Keller
I've always found the "mystery call" suspicious as well, but for the reason that it might delay the search. You make a great point that it also might have focused the search in the wrong area.
I also struggle with the idea that she is right near the trail, given the excellent track record of the Maine Warden Service, Gerry's preparedness, the assistance from hikers, and the intense searches. Authorities in Canada searched for a man missing "somewhere" on a 148-mile remote river who got into trouble "sometime" in a two-month time frame and found him in eight days. But Gerry is still missing.
Anyway, I'm thankful for the renewed discussion. Still praying for answers, first for Gerry's loved ones, for those who have searched for her, and for the hiking community as well.
I know this wont be perceive correctly because i might be un informed on the necessity of a bear canister. But it kinda makes sense to me that perhaps a trail policy be urged more so for hikers to carry my-spot type personal gps tracking units while hiking. Makes sense to me i think i might get one
Trail Miles: 4,980.5
AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
Foothills Trail: 47.9
AT Map 2: 279.4
BMT: 52.7
CDT: 85.4
Per Turtle Grey's excellent post.
APPROX 0700 Photo taken of GL at poplar ridge shelter.
APPROX 0700-0725 GL sends text to husband.
APPROX 08:30 Ivanic leaves poplar shelter.
10:30 GL's phone receives text from unnamed private sender that is not read. FROM WHICH TOWER?
14:26 Husband sends txt to GL. That is not read. WHICH TOWER?
14:30 GL's phone pings on cell tower. WHICH TOWER?
Some items that I need more Information.
When was Ivanic spotted by 3 SOBO on lone mountain? (Trying to establish her time to cover that distance)
When did 3 SOBO reach Poplar shelter? (Trying to establish when the end of time missing for suspected area of missing)
When did Ivanic reach Spaulding shelter?
When did female caller call in to hostel owner supposedly?
Is there any accounts of Nobo or Sobo immediately after the timeframe In order to lock in the fact that the trail was empty? Maybe next day accounts?
Any educated guesses as to by when Ivanic should have caught up? (At least by Spaulding shelter you think/agree?)
I know there's more, I've followed this case since the start and just trying to think through it.
Rolex
From what I know about ME hiking, which isn’t much, is that your speed is about 1 mile per hour, which would put her at the shelter right at 7 hours of hiking. I wish there was more information on the mysterious phone call to the hotel saying she would be late. What if GL's phone was used to make that phone call? And if her phone pinged that late in the evening I believe the whole "bog/river drowning" could be eliminated as highly likely. If people stayed with GL at Poplar Shelter, and someone said they stayed with her at Spaulding then to me it sounds like someone could have been trying to delay a search effort by calling ahead. And using her cell phone to do so. Especially with 2 very remote road crossings in this 8 mile stretch.
I sure hope this isnt the case. Clickable.
I am not saying that they are related incidents but of the same kind.
Trail Miles: 4,980.5
AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
Foothills Trail: 47.9
AT Map 2: 279.4
BMT: 52.7
CDT: 85.4
To answer your questions with the "Cliff Notes" Rolex....
Ivanic left Poplar at roughly 0900 (not 0830)
There is only one cell tower in the area, so no triangulation is possible (I believe that tower is near Spaulding Mountain, but not sure).
We no nothing about George's cell phone pings other than he received the text Gerry sent at 0730, he sent at a text at 1426 that her phone received, but she did not read. Not to be confused with the ping from her phone being turned on at 1430.
Ivanic was spotted at 1500.
3 SOBO's reached Poplar between 1800-1900 (they were much faster than the girls).
Ivanic reached Spaulding roughly 1600.
Call to hotel by unidentified female was on Wednesday evening around 1800.
Gerry was not spotted by anyone after she left Poplar - period. She could have made it as far as the Barnjum Rd. area before Ivanic would have caught her, shortly after that she would have been spotted by the SOBO boys.
www.postholer.com/Turtle Feet
Follow me as I crawl the A.T.
Life is an adventure or nothing at all ~ Hellen Keller
Has the Barnjum RD been searched as extiensively as the trail areas? Perhaps for a pack or items dropped along the road?
Trail Miles: 4,980.5
AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
Foothills Trail: 47.9
AT Map 2: 279.4
BMT: 52.7
CDT: 85.4
Yes Barnjum has been searched.
Hikers In the Vicinity of Inchworm
www.postholer.com/Turtle Feet
Follow me as I crawl the A.T.
Life is an adventure or nothing at all ~ Hellen Keller
Thanks, I'll update the timeline and look into the cell tower location after work today. I'll wait and look through all the old posts for info to add to the timeline first.
I use this for antenna locating. It seems to work pretty well.
Thank you for the info. I (strictly) amateur sleuth on missing persons that I can relate to somehow. They just found the one I've been working on by the name of Erin Corwin out of 29 Palms CA and thought I'd relook at this one.
Rolex
http://www.antennapoint.com/
I meant this one.
http://www.antennasearch.com/
LW - There are two roads between Poplar Ridge LT and Rt. 27 (Barnjum Rd. - can park a passenger vehicle about 1.5 mile from trail crossing (near Perham Stream) an ATV accessible; Caribou Valley Rd. with similar accessibility). Over the years, I have seen several non-hikers in the Barnjum Rd. area on ATV's. Throw into the mix of the 'secret' military training outpost within a few accessible miles of the Oberton Canyon stream ford along with a highly tourist-dependent area (Stratton/Rangeley Lake) and you could connect the handling of this case by the Maine Warden Service (lost person) rather than the state police (possible abduction/foul play). About two weeks after her disappearance, I gave the Maine Warden Service a lead which I thought should have been followed up. I never heard back from them.
Why in the world this is still only being considered a lost person case and not foul play investigation is beyond me! I believe there comes a time when people need answers, and people need closure. How many thru hikers have ever just "dissappeared"? I think about....1. How does a person just vanish for a year and authorities dont take that as more than a missing person...baffles me, but I could be out of line, sorry if I am.
Trail Miles: 4,980.5
AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
Foothills Trail: 47.9
AT Map 2: 279.4
BMT: 52.7
CDT: 85.4
I have concluded certainly within the first month of her not showing up that this is a deliberate act rather than an accidental "lost in the dreadful Maine woods" case. Whose deliberate act is the only question IMHO. The truth will out.
You never know just what you can do until you realize you absolutely have to do it.
--Salaun