First Time JMT'er with a few questions

[Turk6177]

1. I plan on thru-hiking the JMT starting the last week in August. How are the water sources this year? What do you think could be the longest stretch (either time wise or distance) without water?

2. For those that have hiked the GA section of the AT, if I averaged 12-14 miles a day there, do you have any idea what kind of mileage I might average on the JMT? I know it is hard to compare terrain, but if you did both, maybe you could give me some input to help me plan the number of days food I might need.

3. I would like to park in Tuolumne meadows and take the bus to start at Yosemite Valley. I believe there is long term parking there. I would like to do my first resupply out of my car at the meadows, starting with only 3 days of food. Considering the public transportation, does this plan seem plausible? Is it easy to get around with the busses from Lone Pine back to the meadows after the hike?

4. Does anyone hang their bear canisters in a tree to prevent the bears from getting to them in the first place (PCT method)?

5. Are the mosquitoes bad enough to consider packing a head net?

6. Going SOBO, is there an easy resupply point anywhere after Muir Trail Ranch? I was considering stashing a box of food at the Onion Trailhead, but have been debating which would be better, carrying all my food to make it to the end from MTR or hiking the extra 8 miles (round trip) to the Onion Trailhead to resupply (which basically adds a day to my hike).


7. Is there a place to recharge batteries/phones, etc. at Muir Trail Ranch? Is one of those solar backpack chargers worth the extra weight or would something more like an IMP extended battery be more ideal. I would hate to have my camera battery go dead when I need it most.

8. How much do the businesses at Red's Meadows and Muir Trail Ranch charge to receive and hold a resupply parcel for you? Can you get alcohol at both places for an alcohol stove or are canisters for canister stoves easier to come by?

9. Lastly, while some people like the solitude of hiking alone, which I do enjoy periodically, I also enjoy the social aspect of meeting new people and creating new friendships. How populated is the trail during this time of year (late Aug-early Sept)? Do hiker "pods" frequently form or are most people pretty much solo out there when they camp? (I will probably get ridiculed for asking such a question that there are a million different answers to, but I would like to hear other's experiences)

I am sure I will have a lot more questions, but if anyone can help me get some of these answers it will put me another step forward in my planning. Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can pass on to me. I have Erik The Black's JMT Atlas and some Tom Harrison maps on their way to me. I will probably carry both of those when I hike. I also have Elizabeth Wenk's book John Muir Trail: The Essential Guide to Hiking America's Most Famous Trail. I figure between those and the insight of the other hikers from Whiteblaze I should be able to get this trip planned.

[DLP]

Does anyone hang their bear canisters in a tree to prevent the bears from getting to them in the first place (PCT method)?

You will not want to do this. Don't put the bear canister in a bag or with straps or anything. An animal can use the bag/straps/rope to pick up the canister and drag it away. Just go with the "naked" canister.

I have used a bear canister about 50 nights in Yosemite, Sequoia and Tahoe. You just put it 100ish paces away from your sleeping spot on the ground. I usually try to put it some place that is not uphill from me. Or someplace where it won't roll into a lake, creek, cliff, etc. I've never actually had my canister touched. It has always been exactly where I have left it.

I would like to do my first resupply out of my car at the meadows, starting with only 3 days of food.
If it were me... I'd take Amtrak to Yosemite Valley. But you can leave your car at Tuolumne Meadows. There are about 30 bear lockers at the parking lot at the Tuolumne Wilderness Center. Don't leave the food in your car. It will be fine in a bear locker.

Best wishes and have fun!

EDIT: Bear Can info http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bearcanisters.htm

[DLP]

5. Are the mosquitoes bad enough to consider packing a head net?

I just got back from Sequoia Nat'l Park. I was told picking up my permit that the mosquitos were a 7 out of 10. I would have given it a 7 at one creek and a 2 the rest of the time.

My son and husband HATE mosquitoes and would have given it a 7.

How "bad" mosquitoes are is VERY subjective and one person will wear a head net and another will not even notice the mosquitoes.

Mosquito nets are so light... you can bring it... and if you don't use it... oh well. But in late Aug. early Sept... I don't think I'd bring one.

[Venchka]

"I have used a bear canister about 50 nights in Yosemite, Sequoia and Tahoe. You just put it 100ish paces away from your sleeping spot on the ground. I usually try to put it some place that is not uphill from me. Or someplace where it won't roll into a lake, creek, cliff, etc. I've never actually had my canister touched. It has always been exactly where I have left it."

You might a couple dots of reflector tape on the canister in case you have to find it in low light.
Have you thought about leaving you car at the south end of your hike? Getting all of public transportation out of the way up front. Hike back to your car? Done.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[DLP]

8. How much do the businesses at Red's Meadows and Muir Trail Ranch charge to receive and hold a resupply parcel for you? Can you get alcohol at both places for an alcohol stove or are canisters for canister stoves easier to come by?

Check their websites for most up to date info.

[Lyle]

I'm planning an 8/20 - 9/13 thru hike. I can answer some of your questions based on my planning and some experience with western trail hiking.

1) The stretch I'm concerned with at the present is the stretch between Little Yosemite Valley and Cathedral Lakes. I've heard conflicting reports as to whether Sunrise Creek has/will have any water. This is about a 13.2 mile stretch with lots of climbing.

5) I'm not planning for too many mosquitoes. I rarely have problems with them, though.

6) No easy resupply, unless you want to pay for a mule-packer to deliver a package for you. Big bucks for that. I'm planning at hiking out over Kasarge Pass to Onion Valley, then having Mt. Williamson motel folks pick us up and taking a rest day at the motel. They will hold a re-supply and shuttle back to Onion Valley. If I remember correct, the mileage from the trail to Onion Valley is 8 miles one way, so going there for a food drop is a 16 mile round-trip. Also, it is illegal to leave a food drop in the bear boxes for re-supply. I know it's done, but if a ranger checks the boxes and finds one unattended, they can/may confiscate it. Official policy is to confiscate.

7) My understanding is that there is a power strip attached to the outside of the building where you pick up your food drop.

8) Reds Meadow is $35 I believe, MTR is $65 per their website. This is on top of shipping cost. They both require paperwork prior to sending your package, check their websites for instructions.

Check out the Yahoo Groups JMT Group. VERY active with lots of information and opinion on anything JMT.

[Miner]

1) Normally I would plan on carrying 1-2L of water at a time. The dry spots will be mainly when you are going over some of the high passes.
2) The JMT is an nicer grade but the elevation's thin air will more then make up for it until you get use to it. If 12 miles is all you could do (rather then chose to do), my first thought is lighten your pack up which makes the climbing easier. The long resupply on the JMT and bear can add enough weight as it is. There are too many variables to give you a good idea. But you can pretty much count on lower mileage at the beginning from most backpacking trips you've done unless you spend time at higher elevation.
3) Nothing wrong with parking in Tuolumne Meadows, but if you are going to go through that much problem, you might as well park at Mammoth Mtn lodge, since the YARTs bus starts there before heading to Yosemite Valley. Mammoth is also where the Eastern Sierra Transit bus stops along the Hwy 395 route (which doesn't go into Yosemite) which simplifies your trip back from the end (1 bus instead of 2).
4) DON"T HANG a bear can. Its design to be left on the ground where the bear can play with it before giving up. If you hang it and the bear is able to cause it to fall, the impact could break the plastic. Don't leave it where it can be knocked down a hill or into a creek since a bear can bat it around.
5) I doubt bugs will be bad by then. You might find a few places still wet enough to continue to breed them, but that will be rare. Especially given how little snow fell this year. If you hit a spot with bugs, just hike a short distance further and you'll likely leave them behind.
6) No. Going over Kearsarge Pass is the only real choice you have unless you want to pay someone big $ to bring you your resupply. The trail over Kearsarge had some nice scenery. Come back via BullFrogs Lakel for variety.
7) I'd rather carry a spare battery then a recharger or solar. Weighs less. If you camera doesn't have one consider getting another. If its your cell phone, consider getting a better camera; still will weight less than solar chargers.
8) Google their websites. They have all the information required to send your resupply there. Muir Trail Ranch has some very specific instructions on how to send your package (ie. needs to be in a bucket not a box).
9) I normally hike solo. However, there are plenty of people hiking on the JMT and many camp in the same popular spots (and the bears know these spots well as a result). After Labor Day, the crowds thin out.

Just using Erik's JMT Atlas or the Tom Harrison Maps are good enough to hike with. No need for both unless you really want them. The Tom Harrison maps will show you more of the surrounding terrain, Black's atlas will mark the water sources and whether they are reliable as well as some nice campsites (there are plenty of sites not marked though). Read Wenk's guidebook ahead of time and make any notes you want on your maps. Its too heavy to actually carry on the trail.

[Dogwood]

1) Water sources are as abundant on the JMT as they are on the AT. Notice I did not say that ALL water sources on the JMT are ALWAYS right at your feet when you are on the trail. Keep abreast of your trail beta to adequately account for JMT water logistics. ie; watch on your trail map for noted water sources(little tarns aren't always on maps though!), keep in mind where you might camp, have an elev profile so that you can plan for the possibly extra water needed during those climbs, etc. The JMT isn't recognized as dry trail. Micro analyzing water abundancies or deficiencies beyond that I will not engage in.

2) A great many variables can come into play determining avg MPD. Comparing avg MPD on the GA AT section and the JMT is rife with pitfalls IMHO. Once acclimated to the higher elev of the Sierras compared to the GA AT(or Phoenix!) it's my best guess you'll avg somewhere near the same MPD on the JMT. That's just a blindfolded toss at the dart board though!

3) Leaving food overnight in a car is not allowed in YNP! http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bears.htm YES, I've seen cars ripped open by bears or Rangers fining people who intentionally left food in cars overnight.

4) Do NOT hang a bear canister. For one thing, the Yosemite NP(Sierras) black bears have become adapt at looking for, locating, and snatching food hung from trees. A ranger saw me hanging a canister on my first trip to the Sierras. It's illegal. He made me take it down. http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bearcanisters.htm

5) The skeeters swarms should be waning by late Aug but what's a head net weigh 1.5-2 oz? And, you're driving to Cali. Throw it in the car JUST IN CASE.

6) It amazes me how many times this question is asked and how many JMTers and PCTers, especially those accustomed with ABUNDANT and NEARBY AT resupply locations, seemingly despise an extra day in the scenic Sierras? This question has been covered ad nauseam. I'm not trying to pick on you Turk it's just that I've heard so many hikers assuming that resupplying conditions should be compared to trails like the AT as if AT resupply conditions are the standard that all other other resupplies should be judged against. Sorry, that's been brewing in me for awhile. It's a nice hike out over Kearsarge Pass. to the TH OR you could have a parcel packed in by stock to you IF you feel the need.

7) I haven't been to MTR in three yrs so attitudes MAY have changed some but MTR has had in the past, in my experience as well as other's experiences, stated it is there for paying customers ie; those who have reservations, who have paid MTR to pack in a resupply bucket, who are seeking a bed/campsite(this is a rare thing to accomplish on a walk-in basis in my past experiences!), etc. For example, and again things may have changed, in my 4 times stopping there Without paying to have MTR hold a bucket or having a room reservation I wasn't allowed in the dining room or past the front desk or allowed to take anything from a hiker box by the front desk. MTR has outlets and it's my best guess they would allow you to charge electronics IF you did it in a way that didn't affect paying customers assuming you are not a paying customer as described above. It's been my experience VVR has no problems with you charging electronics. Additionally, I've charged electronics at Reds Meadow and Tuolomne Meadows.

No idea about solar panels but I'm currently considering a small one for some S. America hikes. A few hikers have mentioned them on their blogs which seem quite usable.

For my small digital thru-hiking camera I intentionally note as one of the purchase conditions the battery life under varying situations. For example, smaller screens use less battery life. Some cameras have battery life saving features such as automatically turning off if not used in a specified amount of time. On all my U.S Lower 48 long distance hikes I have managed battery life mainly by packing an extra battery and/or bouncing my camera battery charger.

8) $35 to mail to Reds Meadow with $1/day storage charge. http://www.redsmeadow.com/pdf/PackagePickUp.pdf

$65 MTR mailed in bucket. http://www.muirtrailranch.com/resupply.html

Canisters available at both VVR and MTR. Alcohol(DA and HEET) and white gas available at VVR. White gas and probably HEET(prolly limited supply though) available at MTR. Call Reds Meadow. Actually pick up the phone and call for info at all these places!

9) In late Aug/early Sept the crowds dissipate. You will be hiking in nothing that resembles an AT NOBO Thru-hiker bubble!!!

[quasarr]

At Red's Meadow you can hitch to the town of Mammoth, which has supermarkets. I understand you might not want to interrupt your wilderness experience, but I think the $35 fee is really outrageous. I had to wait about an hour for this hitch, but there are many tourists in this area and you are sure to find a ride.

[Turk6177]

Great info regarding not leaving any food in my car and not hanging my bear canister. Thanks to everyone who has responded. I will probably just take enough food to get to Red's Meadow and hitch into Mammoth as suggested by Quasarr. Dogwood, sorry to compare anything to the AT, but that is my only frame of reference barring hiking for a few days in Grand Canyon. I really am looking forward to the differences the two trails have to offer. I am by no means an expert backpacker and learn (and re-learn) new things on every trip. I have done some week long trips and am looking forward to the challenge of a little bit longer thru hike. Lyle thanks for the info. I might see you out there depending on the day I start. Miner, my pack weight isn't much of an issue. I generally went 12 miles a day by choice on the AT in GA. I am generally around 18 pounds base weight which will go up a little with the bear canister and maybe a down vest. I hope to make up some of that by carrying less water where it is abundant. Thanks again everyone for the details. I am looking forward to a wonderfully beautiful adventure.

[Dogwood]

You can resupply at Tuolomne Meadows Store by buying or mailing a box. By late August you might get lucky and find a stuffed hiker box at the store too although, as you know, hiker boxes are a hit or miss affair. Look for fuel! Grab a bite at the grill under the same roof too. Some of their offerings are trail worthy to cut down on the need to cook. Their b-fast sandwiches are decent and not expensive.

A bus operates between Mammoth Lakes and Reds Meadow, Devils Postpile(check it out!), Mammoth Ski Resort, etc. RM has some groceries and a sit down restaurant. I've never seen the store stocked exactly the same twice so call about availability with latest options closer to your hiking timeframe. Restaurant was good every time I ate there. Hiker box at RM store as well; look for fuel! Although I like going into ML from RM, you may not have to go into town for resupply. ML is an iconic Sierras town on that side of the Sierras. It has everything a thru-hiker could ask for including a good gear shop centrally located stocking fuel and, if inquiring nicely, may let you get online at their in store computer. Up the road from RM are those FREE damn HOT spring fed showers you might want to take advantage of if not heading into ML to stay in a hotel/motel/CG or if you want to clean up before heading into ML. The bus goes right by them enabling you to get on/off with, as I've always done it, with the same ticket. Reds Meadow, I think, offers showers too. I only took a shower there once a long time ago. Those hot spring fed tubs/showers down the road are just too good to pass up.

I've been very fortunate to often hike without having to hike in a rushed fashion so I can afford to look around more. You get to know what many hikers desire and want. I like contributing these things that I've learned so that MAYBE it can make another hiker a better hiker or have someone have a better experience. I would like to think so but maybe I'm just practicing my writing skills. HYOH. Have a great hike. Let your troubles roll by.

[quasarr]

Yes, I just remembered the shuttle bus as well! When I was there the bus service had not begun for the season so I had to hitch. It is $7 for an all-day pass and the bus comes every 30 minutes. You can buy the ticket on the bus but you need exact change. You can probably get change at the Red's Meadow store.

http://www.estransit.com/CMS/content/reds-meadow

[quasarr]

PS I thought I should offer some advice as a fellow East Cost native who has been out there

If you have never hiked out West before, the altitude is one of the big differences. You should be fine as far as acclimation goes because you will begin from Yosemite Valley which is around 5,000 ft, and slowly work your way up. So you will have plenty of time to get used to the elevation. The people who have altitude problems are usually those who summit Whitney from the town of Lone Pine in a single day.

But one of the best ways to prevent altitude problems is to stay hydrated! The higher you are, the dryer the air will be so it is extremely important to drink a lot of water even if you don't feel thirsty all the time. Water is plentiful on the trail, as others have said, but remember you may need more than you are used to.

And a final note, keep in mind you will be above the trees for up to 10 miles at a time! As someone who is used to the forested peaks of Georgia, it will be a very beautiful but also challenging experience. It isn't terribly hot, (the hottest part is probably the valley!) but another affect of high altitude is to make the UV rays much stronger. So be very, very careful! Make sure to protect yourself because you can get a really bad burn up there. Wear a hat and long sleeves at all times above treeline. And it is a good idea to put sunscreen on your face even with a hat, because the reflection from the ground can also burn you!! If you use trekking poles, it might be a good idea to wear gloves as well because your hands will be very exposed. And don't forget chapstick with SPF! (I made my own sun gloves by just snipping off the fingertips of some cotton gardening gloves. They look kind of hobo-ish but worked great!)

[colorado_rob]

Maybe already said below, but this has been a particularly dry year and especially early on there are some pretty long stretches w/o a water source, so chat at the ranger station at Tuolumne, nice folks there. We were going NOBO in 2012, had a big dry stretch in Yosemite, finally found water near the Half Dome side trail. So going SOBO, make sure to tank up just after this side trail, unless this year is different, but I think it's worse. Ask a Ranger about this section.

Once out of Yosemite (going SOBO), I don't remember any long dry stretches.

[Coffee]

Rangers will be very conservative when asked about water sources. I asked a Ranger at Little Yosemite Valley late last August about water sources between LYV and Sunrise and was told the section was totally dry. So I hauled up 3.5 liters from Little Yosemite Valley only to see water in several areas along Sunrise Creek after a 1000-1500 foot climb. It's better to be safe than sorry with water and I had a light pack since I was resupplying at Tuolumne so this wasn't a big deal. I think that hikers coming in the opposite direction are going to be more reliable sources of current information than Rangers stationed in one place like LYV. The problem is that nearly all hikers coming down from LYV are coming from Half Dome rather than further along the JMT so water intel might be limited.

[colorado_rob]

Rangers will be very conservative when asked about water sources...

Agreed. Looking at a map, my memory is a bit refreshed; we found a water source maybe two miles SOBO from the half dome trail cutoff, which I would not count on this year (it was a small source) but there is another source right at the HD cutoff, but from there SOBO I would bet the next water source will be Cathedral lakes, I think about 9 miles from the HD trail. Not a big deal, but going SOBO I think it's a bit of a climb. Cathedral lake is a great place to camp, or sure looked like it (we didn't though). This was the only stretch along the JMT where we worried about a water source.

[Coffee]

Sunrise High Sierra camp has piped water and they were allowing backpackers to take water last year (late August). However, I know that there have been times when water was restricted to guests. It seems like this should be easy to verify either with the rangers or by calling the wilderness permit office. Even if water isn't available at Sunrise, it isn't much further to proceed to Upper Cathedral Lake. Sunrise is a great place to camp for the views but was very crowded.

[Dogwood]

Sunrise High Sierra camp has piped water and they were allowing backpackers to take water last year (late August). However, I know that there have been times when water was restricted to guests. It seems like this should be easy to verify either with the rangers or by calling the wilderness permit office. Even if water isn't available at Sunrise, it isn't much further to proceed to Upper Cathedral Lake. Sunrise is a great place to camp for the views but was very crowded.

Yup! They have to haul their water to the camp just as you do so the order of the day is - be self sufficient water wise. Personally, I've never witnessed Sunrise Creek totally bone dry. Even when I've been there in drought yrs there has always been a trickle or pools to get capture water.

When in YV while inquiring about water availability at the Backcountry Office(where you can pick up JMT beta, your JMT permit, a rented bear canister, closures, have questions answered, etc) ask if BOTH the Cathedral Lakes are open for camping. YNP sometimes alternates between closing one or the other Cathedral lakes(Upper and Lower) to camping. These lakes can be great places to LNT camp!

[colorado_rob]

Zero water at Sunrise camp in late summer of 2012. Every year is different, but this sure is a dry one. I just hope the rangers give accurate info, I've been burned before.

[Coffee]

Upper Cathedral Lake had some severe posted restrictions on camping and avoiding use trails when I was there last year. There were some places to camp but I don't think it was legal to camp anywhere near the lake itself. I didn't visit Lower Cathedral Lake as I was moving on to Lyell Canyon that day but I was there many years ago and there was were good camping options at the lower lake at that time.