Sleeping Bags For A Noob

[HooKooDooKu]

Only question left is which tent.

Assuming you're looking for a solo tent, I'm going to recommend the Kelty Salida 2 because:
1. Lighter than the REI Passage 2
2. You can currently get it for as little as $120
3. It's easy to use
4. Should be very durable

I've liked my Kelty tents. I don't own the Salida, but I do own the Gunnison 3.1 for when I take both my boys camping with me. My 1st tent was Kelty's predecessor to the Gunnison 2. I've found Kelty tents to be strong and reliable and very reasonably priced (especially when you can find sales like this).

The only down side to a Kelty tent is that they are a little on the heavy side. But that's because they use heavier materials than lighter tents.

As an example, I recently splurged and bought myself a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 (because I found a good after Christmas clearance). My Copper Spur has very similar dimensions to the Salida. But where the Salida weights about 4.5lbs, the Copper Spur only weights about 3.1 lbs.

However, this is one place where more expensive does not totally equate to better (at least not like the sleeping pad comparison I showed earlier). I spend MORE time setting up my Copper Spur UL2 than I do setting up my larger Kelty Gunnison 3. The reason is because the Copper Spur material is so thin, I'm much more afraid of something puncturing the floor of the tent, so I spend much more time making sure every little pokey thing is out from under the Copper Spur.

[AO2134]

I am strongly considering it. 13 oz of savings there. Someone did point out it is better to get what you can step into and see then to get something on the internet and hope it works out. I love to double doors with REI Passage 2. 2 vestibules. But it is a lot of extra weight.

I just thought REI sells the Kelty Salida. Tomorrow, I may just go there and pitch it and compare notes. Passage 2 looks a little bigger in all respects, especially the worst of all: heavier. almost 1 lb.

If i get the passage 2, current weight would be 12 lbs 5 oz for pack, sleeping system, and tent. If I get the Kelty Salida 11 lbs 8 oz. Fairly respectable for the amount I have paid.

One way or the other, tomorrow I will have my tent.

Thanks to everyone for all your help. Honestly, it has been a great help. It has saved at least 2 lbs of my back/shoulders/hips/knees. Possibly 3 lbs if I go with Kelty Salida.

Thanks again.

[HooKooDooKu]

I just thought REI sells the Kelty Salida.

Oh, they sell it... it's just that it is currently at the full retail price of $170 there.

Campmor shows the full retail price of $170, but they have it on sale for $143.
Campsaver linked above shows a full retail price of $160 with a sales price of $120. I don't know in this particular instance, but the $120 tent might be 2013 model clearance. I know that's how I got a killer deal on my Kelty Gunnison 3.1 at Backcountry.com... the Gunnison 3.2 models had come out, and they were clearancing the 3.1. I picked it up a normally $200 tent for something like $130.

[Venchka]

Is renting a tent, any tent, not an option? While you save money for a TarpTent Notch, Moment, StratoSpire?
Are you still bound and determined to start with a 2 person tent? If I knew then what I know now (backpacking solo or with friends who had 2 person tents) I would have started with a solo tent.

Wayne

[AO2134]

Oh, they sell it... it's just that it is currently at the full retail price of $170 there.

Campmor shows the full retail price of $170, but they have it on sale for $143.
Campsaver linked above shows a full retail price of $160 with a sales price of $120.

Oh I had no intent to buy it from REI. My intention was to pitch it there and compare the two and see if I like it. I understand it may not be the exact one I am buying as you indicated it may be an older version. But at least that way I can get an indication of what I am buying before I purchase it online.

[rafe]

Gear List So Far:

2 person tent: 5 lbs, 5 oz. $150
Sleeping System (pad & bag): 5 lbs $170
Pack: 4 lbs 12 oz. $190
Cocking System: 1 lb 5 oz $70
Water + hydration system + purifies: 5 lbs 12 oz. $ $70
Food (2-3 nights, 3-4 days): 6 lbs
Headlamp + extra batteries 10 oz $40

So just in that alone I have 28 lbs 12 oz.

Oh gosh no. Waay too heavy. Aim for something like this:

Solo tent: 2 - 3 lbs.
1.5 person tent: 3 lbs.
Pack: 2 - 3 lbs.
Cooking: 1 - 1.5 lb (fuel, stove, pot, cup, spoon, windscreen)
40-45 degree down bag: 1.25 - 1.5 lb.
Hydration system: platy bag, soda bottle: 0.25 lb.
Water filter 1 lb. (or skip it and use Aqua Mira)
Headlamp: 2 oz.

The list I've written is still a far cry from ultralight but is easy to achieve and not too expensive. Check those cottage vendors listed earlier. Check discount outfits, sales, last years' models, thrift stores, Amazon, eBay. You will not find what you need at malls. Probably not at Costco or WalMart either. Most everything they sell is for "road camping" and not for backpacking.

Even REI and EMS (sad to say) are only so-so for lightweight gear for serious backpacking -- but a step up toward the real thing. Campmor is a godsend, excellent stuff there, if you know what you want.

You'll find what you need at a proper "outfitter" but any brick-and-mortar store will charge premium $$. So the challenge is to identify what you want and find it elsewhere at a price you're willing to pay.

[HooKooDooKu]

Oh gosh no. Waay too heavy. Aim for something like this:...

Well, we've already got some of those weights down...
Kelty Salida 2 Tent -about 4lbs (you might be able to lighten up changing tent pegs, and only taking enough to stake out the tent, not be ready for a hurricane).
REI Flash 62 Pack (Large) 3lbs2oz $130

But I must say that it seems like you can do a lot better than 5lbs for a sleep system for $170.
As an example, you could get the Mountain Hardware 35º Lamina for $140 at 2lbs4oz and a RidgeRest for $30 at 14oz (total of 3lbs 2oz) (not my 1st recommendation as I really like the UltraLamina series myself)

A good water filter is the Sawyer Mini... it weights about 3oz to 5oz (if you limit yourself to the enclosed 16oz "dirty water bag") and you can get that at Walmart for $20 (one of the few TRUE back packing pieces of gear you can actually get a Walmart). A note about Sawyer water filters and Platypus bags... Sawyer used standard "bottle" threads (so a typical water bottle can screw onto the back of the Sawyer filters). But Platypus went their own way and uses screw threads that are at a different angle... so it is difficult to get a good seal trying to screw a platypus onto a Sawyer filter (you're only going to get about 3/4 of a turn, likely not enough for a good seal).

Cooking should be able to get well under 1.5 lbs. There's lots of titanium pots and bowls that weight 2oz to 5oz and cost about $20 (for a small uncovered bowl) to $60. A stove like the pocket rocket is about 3oz, and a fuel canister is about 8oz full (smaller sizes good for 4 to 7 days). Add a spoon and that's about 1lb or less (most of it being the fuel).

[AO2134]

The pack was a huge savings. Almost 2 full lbs. REI flash 62 is 3 lbs. Current sleeping system is 4 lbs 2 oz. I wish I had seen the Mountain Hardware 35 Lamina before I bought the marmot trestles 30. It would be $40 more, but likely worth the 1lb in savings. That would be one lb for 400+ yearly miles of hiking. Eh, I got at REI yesterday. I don't want to be that guy but maybe I will return it. I only paid $100.

My big three current weight is 11 lbs 10 oz. Substantially better than my previous 15 lbs 1 oz. I know I could go lighter, but I like this for weight to price ratio. I really like the idea of keeping pack with me in tent on solo hikes and the ability to bring a second person if i need to. I'll pay while hiking on the trail for the extra comfort. If it ever becomes overbearing, I could always get the SMD Skyscape scout and save another almost 2 lbs. on tent. Bringing my big three to under 10 lbs easily. And at the price of $125, it wont hurt my wallet too much either.

[AO2134]

Given all the time everyone has invested in helping me with this (and I am very, very grateful and my back, shoulders, traps, hips, knees, feet, and overall state of mind will be grateful in the future), I will post the final decisions. I looked into the Mountain Hardware 35 Lamina. If it had a compression sack I would definitely buy it today. I am going to look into a compression sack that fits that bag.

BTW: Old sleeping bag (only used it in car camping and for a 2 night trip in glacier national park) vs. new sleeping bag. I can't really tell a difference. . .10494842_10101525169550017_8092788134132611681_n.jpg

[AO2134]

Footprint will add ~8 oz to weights mentioned above. Do you use them? They make sense from a logical point of a view, but do they work in practice? Keep tent bottom safer? Drier?

[Venchka]

Given all the time everyone has invested in helping me with this (and I am very, very grateful and my back, shoulders, traps, hips, knees, feet, and overall state of mind will be grateful in the future), I will post the final decisions. I looked into the Mountain Hardware 35 Lamina. If it had a compression sack I would definitely buy it today. I am going to look into a compression sack that fits that bag.



BTW: Old sleeping bag (only used it in car camping and for a 2 night trip in glacier national park) vs. new sleeping bag. I can't really tell a difference. . .10494842_10101525169550017_8092788134132611681_n.jpg

If you buy the Lamina, and many have praised it for it's small compressed size, WAIT to buy a compression sack until you find out if you really need it. Again, the Lamina bags (all temp. ratings) get high marks for small packed size.

Meanwhile, the good folks at Backcountry Gear (first rate in my book-happy customer) are having a sleeping bag sale.

http://www.backcountrygear.com/sleeping-bag-sale.html

Wayne

[Another Kevin]

(1) I'm not a big fan of compression sacks. Gear that's stuffed more loosely conforms to the shape of the pack and the gear around it. You can use the pack's compression straps to cinch it down. I use a pack liner (a trash compactor bag does nicely), so I don't even bag my extra clothing. I just pack it in around everything else and then compress the pack.

(2) You totally don't need a two-person tent in warmer weather. (In winter, when you may be holed up for a while and need to spread things out, it may be a different story. Or if you are sharing the tent with a big dog.)

Bringing the pack into the vestibule of a one-person tent is no problem. By the time that my bear bag is hung, my sleeping stuff is unpacked, and my extra clothing (the rain suit, at the very least) is in the sleeping bag stuff sack to serve as a pillow, there's next to nothing left in the pack. All that's left are the first aid kit, knife, personal locator beacon, smart phone, map/compass/guidebook, camera, notebook, and a small amount of "it's none of your business what else is in my pack." All of that stuff -what I think of as "the small hard things" - fits in the 'brain' of the pack, or in the plastic grocery sack that I use for a liner in that compartment, and can go by my head or feet. The pack itself can sit in the pack cover (to keep it dry) and lean against a pole in the vestibule. In winter, it can go under me for a little bit of extra insulation. Here's my typical warm weather setup, on a sunny morning after a night of intermittent heavy rain.


Campsite by ke9tv, on Flickr

By the way, that's a TarpTent Notch in the picture. At 30 ounces (the stock model is 27 ounces, but I have the half-solid side panels because I also use it in snow), it's less than half the weight of that Kelty Salida. Of course, that doesn't count the weight of my poles, but I'd be bringing them whatever tent I used. Note that the Notch has an equally big vestibule on the other side that I'm not even using in the picture. In a winter setup, that's where my crampon bag goes, and my ice axe and snowshoes in the unlikely event that they're not being used as tent stakes. Because generally it's a good idea to keep ice-encrusted sharp pointy things away from the rest of your gear.

Oh, and I didn't do all that damage to the campsite! It's a designated and marked site, and I was arriving at nightfall so I didn't want the hassle of scoping out a decent stealth site.

I don't use a footprint with the Notch. Henry says he almost never gets a Notch back for floor repair/replacement. In the picture above, I'm pitched on clay, and there was intermediate heavy rain. I stayed dry, buttoned up inside.

[HooKooDooKu]

Footprint will add ~8 oz to weights mentioned above. Do you use them? They make sense from a logical point of a view, but do they work in practice? Keep tent bottom safer? Drier?

There have been entire threads here on WB on the subject of tent footprints (should I/Shouldn't I/what to use).

Some people see them as a complete waste.
Some people see them as a way to better protect the bottom of the tent.
Some people want at least a moisture barrier under the tent.
Some people like them to keep the bottom of the tent and the tent stuff sack clean (because you can fold the dirty side of the ground cloth in on itself).

From there, you then get into what to use:
Some simply use a thin piece of plastic and throw it away and get a new one with each trip.
Some like to use the Window Films because it's about as heavy as a thin piece of plastic but much stronger.
Those with access to spare pieces of Tyvek like to use that as a ground cloth.
A cheap Walmart tarp can easily be cut to the size needed.
Of course every tent manufacture will also sell you a ground cloth to fit there tents (many of these are configured such that you can setup just the ground cloth and the fly to make a shelter without the weight of the tent).

My personal suggestion, based on hiking in the GSMNP, where most tent sites are bare dirt, is to at least use something to keep the bottom of your tent clean.
If you're going to use the Kelty Salida 2, the tents been around for a while, and I don't see it going anywhere soon. So you could always decide to buy a Salida floor today, tomorrow, next week, or next year. Save a few bucks for now and just use what ever is cheapest for you for the moment. If you have an old tarp lying around you're not using, cut that up to fit. If not, go buy a cheap plastic drop cloth and cut that up to fit. Perhap there's a house getting built in your neighborhood where you can get a piece of leftover Tyvek (or other house wrap) to use. In any case, you're supposed to cut the ground cloth just a little smaller than the tent so that rain doesn't get on the ground cloth an run between the tent and ground sheet.

Once you've tried a cheap ground cloth, you can better decide if you want something more substantial later.

[linus72]

Cheap $8 flip flops are easy camp shoes, help your feet expand after a long day of hiking, and sit in my outer mesh pocket as getting wet is no issue. My sawyer filter mini was cheap, is the best out there for the money and size, and weighs next to nothing. I have been loving my REI flash pad (around 1lbs), Flash 45 pack (around 2lbs), alps mountaineering diamondback 30 (2.14 lbs but compresses real nice and fits in the bottom of my pack) and my wife and I split the weight of our passage 2, which 5 with footprint or not is a GREAT, strong, easy to set up tent with double doors and double vestibules. If and when I go solo I will invest in a nice 1-person light tent under 3 lbs but splitting the weight on the Passage 2 is totally manageable. Even with my pocketrocket and canister, a couple days food, cookset (a cheap stanley one with 2 cups from Sports Authority worth the extra weight as it and the cups are bulletproof it seems), knife, maps, TP, first aid, raincoat (yep, an REI lightweight one) and pack cover I am still amazed at how lightweight and manageable it all was. Boy has technology improved things since my scouting days. I don't have the strongest core or back ever but never did i feel back or shoulder pain. Why everything at REI you may wonder? Dividend, extremely knowledgeable and passionate staff, and their return policy... i have trekking poles so i think for future solo 1-man tent i will go for one that uses the poles as stakes. The filter and a data sheet also helps you not need to carry as much water so i usually keep 1 liter of filtered on me and ration it between reliable water sources and filter. not doing big miles each day yet so dont need to carry much more than that to save tons of time. its an excuse to rest for a few minutes and enjoy the experience. get some ditty sacks to organize your gear, its SO much easier when all your stuff is organized and you can just grab the bag you want. throw in a plastic garbage bag or two to pack out trash when you have the opp. Only thing i gave serious thought to in the warm summer weather was a travel sak vs the 30 degree bag, which would save a pound and some space and i wont overheat when sleeping, but thats when i have $70 just floating around.

[AO2134]

Thank you everyone for your help. Especially those who said get the REI Flash 62. 2 lbs of savings my friends. 2 lbs.