Is the wood burning stove illogical nowadays?

[gunner76]

You can get a Ti Wood Burning stove from Tato gear for about $55, fold flat and weights about 5 ounces http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/stor...08&id=23387848. Lot of other choices on wood stoves.

You can also get clones of most of the big brand name canister stoves on Ebay and many for about $10 with shipping. Many even come with built in igniter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultralight-M...item51a506d6b6. ( I have bought 4 variations on EBay and they all work and when I have tested them under controlled conditions against their brand named version I find the time to boil water to be just a few seconds longer ( 10 to 20 seconds )

[SunnyWalker]

I carry one of those blue Walmart shopping bags. Towards dinner time I pull it out and start collecting little pieces of wood and twigs along trail. Then I am all set. If I fill the bag up I have enough for quick fire in the morning too. The weight of the Walmart bag is negligible and it comes in handy for other purposes also. I think you'd like a firefly. Check ot QiWiz'z products. He posted on this thread so it ought to be easy for you to look the Fire Fly over.

[Another Kevin]

For three seasons: Alcohol wins for me. My kit is a Penny Stove (modified with a priming dish, and a somewhat different jet pattern), a pot stand made out of aluminium rod stock, a wrap-around windscreen made from a dollar-store cookie sheet, a Grease Pot, a Lexan spork, and Reflectix cozies for a freezer bag and a Nalgene bottle. I boil 1-2 cups in the evening and 2-3 cups in the morning (hot dinner, and in the morning porridge, coffee, maybe even a second cup of coffee). The Nalgene bottle with the cozy is a nice big insulated coffee pot/mug.

Some of my hiking partners use wood, but I don't like having soot all over everything that then rubs off and makes all my gear smell like a campfire. If it weren't for that, I'd think the Firefly is one sweet piece of gear. Ultralight and no fuel weight.

If I might have to melt snow for water, then the fuel weight of the alcohol stove gets to be too much and I switch to a Whisperlite. Canister stoves don't work in cold weather.

My pot stand is robust enough that an open fire is my backup. I can use the pot stand like a trivet and use my poopoo trowel to scoop some hot coals from a campfire to put under it.

[QiWiz]

Some of my hiking partners use wood, but I don't like having soot all over everything that then rubs off and makes all my gear smell like a campfire. If it weren't for that, I'd think the Firefly is one sweet piece of gear. Ultralight and no fuel weight.

The easy way to deal with the soot issue of a wood stove: [1] dedicate a pot to wood burning OR use a titanium pot and burn off the soot when it's empty and you want to use it with some other type of fuel; [2] get or DIY a pot cozy (Reflectix works well for DIY, Antigravity gear makes them for most pots if you want to buy a cozy) and place your pot in a cozy to keep food warm after cooking, and use the cozy on your pot in your pack to keep any soot away from other stuff; [3] use a ziplock bag or pouch (for fold-flat wood stoves like the FireFly, Emberlit, Element, etc) or a light plastic bag (for stoves that don't fold flat) to store the stove in your pack. IMO soot is pretty much a non-issue, other than for Ti Tri Caldera Cones used to burn wood, where it's a little tricky not to get soot on your hands when packing the sooty cone into its caddy. YMMV.

[Just Bill]

QiWiz-
Full disclosure- I don't own your stove. That said, I feel a bit bad with my praise of the Ti-Tri and thought I'd propose a fairer comparison for your comment/review.

Forget Alchy- if that's what you want there are better ways to do it- nice bonus if you want to dabble I suppose.

Esbit- I believe this is fair- The Ti-Tri is the best esbit stove available. Period. I can routinely use almost half the fuel and it requires no additional parts or pieces. At around 34g for the cone and gram cracker, with foil sheet- it is the lightest. IMO- the Ti-tri is the best stove if Esbit is your primary fuel.

Wood-
While the Ti Tri has a wood mode, and can be used as Kevin suggested above as a trivet, it is not an exceptional wood stove. It also would require a ground shield and inferno insert at significant cost and minor weight impact.
Your stove(s) however are exceptional wood burners (I can see that well enough from reviews and videos despite not owning one). The ability to side feed, not have to "mulch" each little piece to feed, and the elevated base out of the box make it a much better design for this purpose. The Firefly is heavier, but only by gram weenie standards, not in any appreciable amount. Carrying just a few esbit tabs vs. zero fuel for the firefly would even it out.

extras-
Both stoves fold up and store well and come with a package that protects you from soot. You mentioned and I agree- in wood mode- yours would pack up cleaner.
Dual purpose use of the pot stand via tent stake is a nice option on the Ti-Tri- looks like an easy mod for your stove.
Ti-Tri comes with an alchy stove and Esbit stove in the package, Firefly comes with similar? (not a big deal for alchy)

add ons-
Inferno insert- works well, have seen it- but I passed on it personally.
Pot stands- Your pot options and ability to change pots is a huge advantage.
Grill accessory- also nice- it's not as unrealistic to carry fresh food as people believe- having a micro grill along is a very nice feature. I often freeze meat to eat on the first few nights- having an easy to use grill is nicer than coal cooking or packing in and out aluminum foil.
Baking- although it's easy enough to bake in anything- because of changing pot size and regulating fire easier the edge would have to go the firefly.

Bottom Line- Both great stoves.
Ti-Tri- very specialized piece of kit- bit like the JetBoil I suppose in that for what it does- it does it better than anyone. If your primary fuel is Esbit supplemented with found wood- very hard to beat. Has the ability to burn all three fuels easily out of the box. Also doubles as a windscreen for a canister stove in a pinch, and can function like a charcoal cone to start a fire on a windy wet day.
Huge Ding- One stove fits one pot. (technically you can use other pots in wood mode- but that's not really the point)

At $80 per stove- you better be very confident that the pot you plan to use is the pot you plan to use.
Also- certain models work with certain pots only- so a tall narrow pot may fit a classic, but to get a sidewinder you need a short wide pot.
The trade-off being- the perfect sized cone transfers heat more efficiently and uses less fuel at the cost of committing to one pot.


Firefly (and others)-
WORKS WITH ANY POT- big advantage, but add on the cost of the pot supports. Much more versatile system overall, and excellent choice when wood supplemented with Esbit is your fuel choice.
Not having to commit to a pot and getting "locked" in to the stove makes pulling the trigger an easier choice for folks of all ability levels.
I would imagine the firefly would also work well for starting a fire, although it looks like you would have to dump it out (handle the stove) more than simply picking up the cone and letting the coals drop out.
You fill in the rest of the good stuff

Ding- More parts and pieces, add on's, and options. Yes a good feature can also be bad, Ti-tri is a package out of the box(3 stoves, cone, windscreen, tyvek package).
On the other hand- to be fair- while the options make the initial purchase tricky, if you mess up or want a minor upgrade/change to the kit it is cheaper and easier.
Harder to clean? Not that big a deal I agree, but if you had some esbit build-up or other gunk there are more pieces and parts to clean up.

Bottom line?
If wood is your primary fuel, Firefly is the better stove.
If Esbit is your primary fuel- Ti-Tri.
If you have enough knowledge to pull the trigger on the exact model you want (especially for SUL applications)- Ti-Tri
If you are not sure or plan to use the stove with/on different groups/trips- Firefly

There is no "perfect" anything in regards to backpacking- only a list of pro's and con's that you have to balance against the style of trip you take.

I've had a chance to talk and interact with Rand at BPL and via-email- figured you deserve the same chance to discuss your products as well. I'm sure we all appreciate that you don't use the website to market the way other's have used BPL, but OTH, I don't know that I've seen you get a chance to directly compare/respond. As mentioned, I feel a bit bad because your products are well made, well thought out, and I personally dismiss them because my esbit heavy style leans towards the Ti-tri. But if folks are shopping for this type of stove they deserve the other side of the story (as well as others experiences).

Hope you don't mind and I didn't insult your baby too much- JB

[SunnyWalker]

Wet weather does not phase me in using a wood stove like Fire Fly.

[QiWiz]

QiWiz- Bottom line?
If wood is your primary fuel, FireFly is the better stove.
If Esbit is your primary fuel- Ti-Tri.
If you have enough knowledge to pull the trigger on the exact model you want (especially for SUL applications)- Ti-Tri
If you are not sure or plan to use the stove with/on different groups/trips- Firefly
There is no "perfect" anything in regards to backpacking- only a list of pro's and con's that you have to balance against the style of trip you take.
Hope you don't mind and I didn't insult your baby too much- JB

No offense taken. I think your analysis is right on, and I would not disagree in any important ways with any of it. I'm very familiar with the Caldera systems and actually own three of them, 2 Ti-Tri's and one aluminum cone for a Foster's can pot. I generally use Esbit when not cooking with wood, and (like you) always use a Caldera Cone system when my primary fuel is Esbit. For me these days, this would mostly be on longer trips out west where I may be above tree line and/or in a fire ban area. To be able to use wood in a pinch is a nice feature of the Ti-Tri and is (for me) enough of a reason to get a titanium rather than an aluminum Cone system. For example, I'll be through hiking the JMT in September and I'll be using a Ti-Tri system on that trip with Esbit.

Wood burning is a great option in most of the East (where I do most of my backpacking) and selected Western locations, as long as you are willing to work a bit on your fire skills and like the idea of fires and using free no-weight fuel you find as needed. I always have an Esbit tab or two when I'm out with the FireFly in case I don't want to make a fire for some reason, or the wood/weather conditions are really terrible. I can make my typical breakfast with a half-tab of Esbit, so it's not that unusual for me to make dinner with a fire in the FireFly and a quick breakfast the next morning with Esbit. I can do this for 4 days running with only 1 oz (two tabs) of Esbit. Not much of a weight penalty there.

Bottom line: I think both the Ti-Tri and FireFly are great stove systems and I personally like the flexibility of having both. Obviously not everyone wants to get that deep into a variety of cooking gear options. Not completely sure what I'd do if I had to buy/use only one system, but my gut says that in the East it would probably be the FireFly. and in the West it would probably be the Ti-Tri.

[rocketsocks]

Can't help but say, I've always felt these wood stoves are nothing more than a pot stand. Really nice pot stands though, and they do work well.

I too feel the need to explain further and to say, finding rocks along trails are not always available for building a cooking fire, prolly more times than not they won't be, then there's the keeping the wind out of a three rocks pot stand and triveting a slow cooking shaky pot, and who wants to go fussin around at dinner time lookin for somethin to set your pot on when your hungry and tired....not me! So to better answer the OP question...No, no ill logic when it comes to wood stoves.



...and mulling this over further, the part about being nothing more than a pot stand couldn't be further from the truth, they help to contain and bank coals, they by making it a more efficient fire, and likely safer as well.

...and I'll bet it's way lighter than any three rocks put together.

...and it looks way cool

does it come in different colors

open mouth insert foot.

ya ever say or write something that you read later and say "Man that was a little harsh" that's not what I think at all....I have

[QiWiz]

open mouth insert foot. ya ever say or write something that you read later and say "Man that was a little harsh" that's not what I think at all....I have

...and mulling this over further, the part about being nothing more than a pot stand couldn't be further from the truth, they help to contain and bank coals, they by making it a more efficient fire, and likely safer as well.

Yes, a wood burner concentrates heat, reduces fuel needs, makes a fire easier to start, and contains the fire making accidental spread less likely

...and I'll bet it's way lighter than any three rocks put together.

FireFly weighs 2.8 oz with FlexPort. Emberlit Mini, Element, Bush Buddy, Solo, and others weigh more but are still way lighter than rocks.

...and it looks way cool

Yes, a wood stove is really HOT !

does it come in different colors

Not when you first get it, BUT when titanium is heated by a wood fire, it develops an anodized layer in rainbow colors

photo(2).JPG

[zelph]

You can get a Ti Wood Burning stove from Tato gear for about $55, fold flat and weights about 5 ounces http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/stor...08&id=23387848. Lot of other choices on wood stoves.

I agree. Get a one piece folding wood burning stove like the one from tato. There are a few good ones to be found on the internet. Your wood burning experience will be much more enjoyable.

If you don't mind multiple piece, sooty hands and hassle, get one locally from:

Find the LIGHT STUFF at QiWiz.net

The lightest cathole trowels, wood burning stoves, windscreens, spatulas,
cooking options, titanium and aluminum pots, and buck saws on the planet

[zelph]

You can use alcohol as a backup when you need to melt snow to get some water for your meals. Watch and listen to Shug as he talks about using the Companion Alcohol Burner. It's contructed just like the famous no-spill StarLyte stove/burner.

[rocketsocks]

...and mulling this over further, the part about being nothing more than a pot stand couldn't be further from the truth, they help to contain and bank coals, they by making it a more efficient fire, and likely safer as well.

Yes, a wood burner concentrates heat, reduces fuel needs, makes a fire easier to start, and contains the fire making accidental spread less likely

...and I'll bet it's way lighter than any three rocks put together.

FireFly weighs 2.8 oz with FlexPort. Emberlit Mini, Element, Bush Buddy, Solo, and others weigh more but are still way lighter than rocks.

...and it looks way cool

Yes, a wood stove is really HOT !

does it come in different colors

Not when you first get it, BUT when titanium is heated by a wood fire, it develops an anodized layer in rainbow colors

photo(2).JPG

Awesome, I want one...added to my want list.

[Just Bill]

QiWiz-
Thanks for your candid responses!

[zelph]

Professor Hammock burns wood. Firebug he is:-)

[birdygal]

I bought the evernew stove, it can use wood, solid or alcohol I have only used alcohol in it so far, I figured having the extra option was well worth it

[Gambit McCrae]

Stained my evernew Ti Pot black and sticky. It stinks. Gotta find fuel, if its rained for 3 days...hard to do becaus eyou have to litterally sit there and feed it the whole time. I have used a small hay fire to boil water, I tried the one time with the wood stove and could even boil water in my back yard with it.

[Tipi Walter]

I have not bought/used a stove on the trails yet. But I was looking at research online about a possibility for my first stove purchase. (Sofar im leaning towards jetboil)... But I started thinking "what's wrong with a simple, portable wood/twig burning stove?

Is the wood burning stove pretty much dead nowadays?

I think i can make a coffee can wood burning stove for almost nothing (or even buy a small wood burning stove for little, as well).

Or i can spend $99 on something like a jetboil.

My question is, is there a reason to spend $99 on a fuel canister stove? Or does it make more since to buy/make a wood/twig burner?

(Lets pretend that small alcohol stoves/soda-can stoves don't exist).

Twig burner for relatively nothing? or $99 on a cannister stove? What would you do?

I've had a couple wood burners in the last 30+ years but the fiddle factor is just too much to deal with when the day gets late as Mags says or you don't have perfect conditions or you want to cook in your tent vestibule.


This pic from QiWiz looks awesome but now throw in a 50mph windstorm in an open bald or in a long cold 3 day rainstorm (see below) or in a high wind blizzard. If I can't hunker in my tent and cook, well, it's a non-starter.

In general, wood stoves are bulky and dirty. They have a big fiddle factor in that they need near constant attention. Since you can't use them in a shelter, if it's raining out you have a big problem.

When you say "can't use them in a shelter", I'm assuming a tent Oh, and if it's raining out you have a big problem.

I think I've tried everything. Wood stoves require dry wood which after two days of rain is not easy to locate. Whisperlites my standby and the one I've had the longest. Pocketrockets are nice too. Alcohol I just can't t down too much fuss in mildly cold or windyconditions. 5 days or less whisperlite.More I go with the pocket rocket. fits right in the pot with a bic.

I too like my MSR Simmerlite and 22oz of white gas lasts me around 17 days.

The last time I hiked the 100 Mile Wilderness, it rained for three days straight. We could not find a dry twig anywhere. It was impossible to keep a wood fire going. I was glad I had my Jet Boil along.

In 78 I hiked 15 straight days of rain. Try finding dry wood? Actually had to use sterno. But that was then and now we have options. Also how many shelters do you think were on the AT in 78. Ate a lot f peanut butter and cheese those 15days. Also drank a lot of whiskey. Anyway lots of goo ideas here.

Okay, you're on a mountain top in the winter, like this, and you just spent 30 minutes clearing a site for your tent/tarp---and there's a fierce cold wind blowing in at 0F amibients---now go find some twigs and sit outside your shelter for 20 or 30 minutes cooking dinner.

BTW, NO ONE should cook in their tent vestibule or in their tent . . . . . except me.

[jbwood5]

Buy one of these and see if you like it before you spend big bucks on a canister stove. I bought one last October and have used it a few times with no problems. People have questioned the reliability of such an inexpensive stove but so far nobody has come out and said "this stove failed while I was on a hiking trip." So far I like mine and haven't had any issuses..in the past I've always used alcohol stoves but figured for $6 and free shipping it would be worth a try. I will warn you that it rides the slow boat from China...I think I ordered it October 28th and received it in the mail just before New Years, though somebody said there was another seller of the same stove that shipped them from California. I was about 2 days away from asking for my money back...so just know that it could take a long time to get there.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Bac...=CHINESE+STOVE

I packed with one of these for about 3 weeks and I was impressed. I didn't get mine quite that cheap (paid about $12 shipped last year). Of course you will buy the stove several times in canisters, and you need to have access to canisters occasionally, but the instant gratification sure is nice on a cold rainy evening when you are worn out and just want to get water boiling for your noodles. In my 3 weeks, I never used up a full canister, but I only boil about 26 oz of water or less most days (includes coffee in the AM and some kind of dehydrated meal at night; i.e. mashed potatoes, noodles, Ramans, or a MH dinner). Most outfitters carry the canisters for about $5 and Walmart carries the slightly larger ones for $3.95. I usually carry a Bic lighter as backup in case the striker on the stove fails. This is not a bad option for the AT in most locations. Forget a $99 stove, as it would be a waste of good money. I've also done alcohol which is just a little bit more inconvienent but still an OK option. You have to be a lot more careful when it comes to safety.

[Dedicated Hanger]

Really enjoyed the responses and got quite a laugh off of some of them. Each and every responder has a good point...meaning there is not one that is perfect for everybody for every kind of cooking. I have taken it as my task in life to purchase one of each kind of back packing stove and have a mis-spent life of testing them in actual conditions. This could take years.....

[rocketsocks]

Really enjoyed the responses and got quite a laugh off of some of them. Each and every responder has a good point...meaning there is not one that is perfect for everybody for every kind of cooking. I have taken it as my task in life to purchase one of each kind of back packing stove and have a mis-spent life of testing them in actual conditions. This could take years.....

Awesome...go forth and feel invincible with your new toy, but more important...eat, drink and be merry! Bonaptite'