Boy Scouts rescued from unexpected snow on Appalachian Trail - Lynchburg News and Adv

[FarmerChef]

There's no way I'd ever be a volunteer scouting leader.
Look at the posts above if you would wonder why.

When I was a scout, we'd go out in snow, and winter and build fires to keep warm, hunker down and cook a lot of food.
Now-a-days, fires aren't allowed, you get sued if one of your kids has a problem that you weren't aware of, and you'd always be worried whether you are going to get blamed for something.

At least these kids (and their leaders) are outside.
The troop in our nearby town in PA hikes to McDonalds for **** sake!

I hear you on where the state of Scouting has come. Lawsuits over and over as this organization has been attacked have foisted a set of rules that almost removes the very stimulation we're trying to give the boys through challenge. But I say almost. Creative leaders still find ways to succeed. Lazy leaders...well...

My CUB scouts go on hikes on the AT of several miles a pop. We go bike riding. We go overnight camping (within regs). We have campfires at least 6 times a year with marshmallows and fire building instruction with flint and steel (within regs). And so much more. But every pack, den, troop, unit is different and it depends heavily on the leadership since we are all volunteer.

When I was out on a training hike with my kids a couple weekends ago I bumped into two separate troops out hiking overnight. They were all from eastern Virginia, well away from home. They were largely polite and clearly some were more experienced and some were just learning the ropes. Good. That's what it's for. But, of course, not all troops as you put it fh are going to that level of effort. Again, the reality of a volunteer-based organization. You get out of it what you put into it.

With all the reduction in risk I've seen over the years in Scouting, I see it as my duty to do my best to prepare the boys within and in spite of the evolving limitations we endure. That is the challenge to scouting's leadership as we move forward. To me (and no intended judgment here) that is better than checking out of the system and letting it have its way. These boys need leaders who can challenge them and I fear too many would be awesome leaders see the rules and assume it's all kid gloves and no risk all the time. My two cents.

Back on topic, there is still a dearth of actual information on this original story. Honestly, who really knows what happened outside "they called 911." I'm suspending judgment until more is known. Now those guys that toppled the Hoodoo on the other hand...

[WhiteBlaze]

Appalachian Trail rescue highlights importance of being prepared Lynchburg News and Advance The weekend rescue of a snowbound Boy Scout troop on the Appalachian Trail is serving as a reminder to take precautions on Central Virginia hiking routes as the weather turns warmer. The Chesapeake troop called for help from the Seeley-Woodworth ... Boy Scouts rescued after unexpected snow on Appalachian TrailRichmond Times Dispatch Scouts rescued after encountering snow on Appalachian Trail hikeThe Daily Progress Snow Strands Boy Scout Troop Hiking along Appalachian TrailThe Charlottesville Newsplex NBC 29 News all 18 news articles »

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[Mags]

When I was in boyscouts, I think it was mainly camping trips so the volunteer Dads could get away for a weekend. I remember the adults discreetly (or so they thought) having a beer or two around the campfire once we are all in our tents.

Suspect that policy is stricter, too.

[myakka_]

Fiddlehead,

I think maybe that is also part of why this bothered me so much. While my son was in scouts I took his troop on many a camping trip. And like I said above, we used any misfortune as a chance to teach problem solving and critical thinking.

So, let me be clear, I am not attacking the troop leader, or even claiming that the whole story is known. It was just the "idea" of the article and the obvious irony that stirred my thoughts.

[lonehiker]

Last spring I was hiking north on the Centennial Trail in the Black Hills, SD. I had just come up from Elk Creek and came across a group of Boy Scouts camped at a trail head. Out of courtesy I informed them that 4 of the 5 crossings, of Elk Cr., would be wet (some years this creek is totally dry). No way to rock hop etc. I also gave them my appx. hike time from the lake they were planning on camping that evening. They seemed a bit incredulous that it had taken that amount of time but they thanked me and I continued hiking. I stopped to take a nice lunch break and along came the same group of Boy Scouts. I asked the Leader what was up. He informed me that he didn't want to risk blisters so they were hiking back to their vehicles and would drive to next camp site.

That is the state of affairs within the Boy Scouts of America at this point in time. I'm sure indignant posts from current and former scout leaders are forthcoming, but this is how your organization is perceived today. Hence this post and many of the earlier posts.

[ChuckT]

I wish there was better info available. Could be just one scout was in distress and the leader (correctly) pulled the plug. None of my business of course just scratching my curiosity bump.

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk.

[perdidochas]

Last spring I was hiking north on the Centennial Trail in the Black Hills, SD. I had just come up from Elk Creek and came across a group of Boy Scouts camped at a trail head. Out of courtesy I informed them that 4 of the 5 crossings, of Elk Cr., would be wet (some years this creek is totally dry). No way to rock hop etc. I also gave them my appx. hike time from the lake they were planning on camping that evening. They seemed a bit incredulous that it had taken that amount of time but they thanked me and I continued hiking. I stopped to take a nice lunch break and along came the same group of Boy Scouts. I asked the Leader what was up. He informed me that he didn't want to risk blisters so they were hiking back to their vehicles and would drive to next camp site.

That is the state of affairs within the Boy Scouts of America at this point in time. I'm sure indignant posts from current and former scout leaders are forthcoming, but this is how your organization is perceived today. Hence this post and many of the earlier posts.

As a scout leader, I'm saddened by the above. The problem is that we aren't getting enough experienced outdoorsmen for leaders for a variety of reasons. I'm guessing that the leader above wasn't much of a backpacker. Don't understand the whole "risk" blisters thing. We preach moleskin and changing socks.

I just hope that the scoutmaster in the group that was "rescued" uses this as a training/awakening. I know we use mistakes as a training opportunity.

[myakka_]

I know we use mistakes as a training opportunity.

+1 This I can get behind.

[rickb]

+1 This I can get behind.

I thought that as young Assistant Scoutmaster (I was lucky enough to belong to a troop where the adult leaders were all former Eagles from that same troop -- no fathers) in Rochester, NY.

That was until some kids wrapped their canoe around and under a tree in the Genesee River. It all worked out but I vowed never to go on a (semi) swift water canoe trip with scouts again.

I think winter can be almost as unforgiving as water.

Easy to say it should be a learning experience, but if someone is in over their head (even if they got there because of their own stupidity) situations with freezing weather and swift water are not the places to work it out with other people's spawn. IMO.

[myakka_]

You missed my point. I am not saying they should have done otherwise. I meant that as they prep for the next trip they should consider what they could have done differently on this one. That is what I thought he meant by making it a learning experience.

I already said that my opinions on a lack of self reliance are more about my thoughts and less about this particular trip.

But I think that however it transpired, it should be looked at as a learning opportunity NOW.

[Just Bill]

I give any adult willing to be a Scout Leader credit. In my troop none of the dad's were outdoorsman- just good parent's committing themselves to allowing their children to do what they loved.
Stupid or not- what's important (especially these days) is that the kids were in the woods at all.

I am still good friends with several of the father's to this day and now that I am a Dad appreciate them all the more for it.

[HooKooDooKu]

Is it me or has anybody else noticed how hosed-up the weather forecasting has been these last few months? Turn on the Weather Channel and get a constant stream of reality shows. Look up Weather.com and get some really messed up temperature predictions. The last few weeks especially, they have been way off predicting the daily highs around my area.

I've been noticing it as well. For example, the ice storm that hit Birmingham and Atlanta in January wasn't expected to hit that far north (which caused major traffic problems, etc.)

Hosed up weather forecasts are nothing new... they seem to actually be the norm. So anyone doing anything based on a weather forecast should already be prepared for the weather forecast to be wrong.


BTW, Birmingham and Atlanta didn't get hosed up because of bad weather forecasts... it was unusually cold weather.

It's the norm down here in the South that the weather man says "light dusting" and we get 3"... though more typical is a warning of snow clears the store shelves of bread, milk and eggs and we simply windup with rain.

However, we don't normally get daytime temperatures that stay below freezing for days at a time. So usually, when snow comes, it takes a few hours of snow to chill the roads and allow them to start freezing over.

But in January 2014, we had several days of unusually cold weather where temperatures never got out of the 20's. When the snow started falling, the roads were already below freezing and the accumulation began immediately. Rather than the normal 2 to 4 hours of good road conditions AFTER the snow starts falling that we're used to, we only had about 15 minutes. As a result, the schools didn't get closed and people didn't try to head home from work until it was already too late.

So while everyone was trying to blame the weatherman for so many cars getting stuck out on the roads, the REAL reason was that we had a double whammy of unusual weather (cold for days + snow) that no one thought thru the consequences. (I have to include myself in that analysis as I didn't realize we were in trouble until AFTER my wife called to say 'they closed the schools but the buses are not going to run').


So even in this case regarding the Scouts, regardless of the weather forecasts... it still falls back on the Scouts who SHOULD have been prepared.

But at the same time, I can fully understand when unusual situations cause someone to not fully think a situation through and we don't fully appreciate all the possible consequences until we have the benefit of 20/20 hind sight.

[bennington200]

First time posting. I am a Scoutmaster of a troop near this incident who also had members of his troop backpacking the A.T. in Virginia the same weekend. We had been listening carefully to NOAA weather reports for Saturday night and pulled our boys off the mountain in part because of them. We heard of predicted constant rain with 60+ MPH winds with "extensive trees downed and widespread electrical outages." There was no mention of snow, but that isn't tenting weather. We could have piled in a shelter, but we would have filled it, potentially exposing others to risk.
The troop stranded at the shelter based its backpacking trip on an online hiking resource which does a fantastic job describing hikes in the Mid-Atlantic. But checking that website's description and map for this trip shows that the S-W shelter is at the very north end of the map provided by the site, and does not show alternate evacuation routes from that shelter. I am betting this crew woke up in the morning (photo) after a day on the trail (the paper was incorrect in stating they started that morning - their hike started the previous day), and based on the map they had with them saw the only option being a 7 mile hike back in potentially drifting snow, possibly with younger scouts, with a couple of steep ascents along the way - so they called for assistance. "They weren't sure of the trail moving forward," said the county emergency services coordinator. I think the key is "moving forward," as they must have sensed that major highways were closer to the north.
I know that area well and know multiple bug-out routes to trailhead parking, but this troop is from the other end of the state and should have bought a trail map. They still would have needed a shuttle back to their original trailhead (which can be a treacherous drive in the snow and ice over dirt covered Forest Service roads), but they probably wouldn't have had to call the rescue squad and get their story published in papers across the state. I always tell people that my single favorite piece of outdoor equipment is a good map.
But it is easy to get in a position when leading kids that seems out of hand. My own leadership could have been called into question with my own troop's hike that same weekend - I know I did not correctly pass every test. The troop that needed rescue has a large number of very qualified adults, according to the website. It may be that we are all being unfair in judging without knowing all the facts.
Here is a description of my troop's weekend experience: Link. We turned out OK, but I am not sure I made the best decisions for the group.

[myakka_]

Thanks so much for your response B200. One thing everyone has been consistent about in this discussion was the lack of hard information. You take on a very difficult task when you take kids to the woods, but it is very worthy and honorable. Thanks for what you do.

[HikerMom58]

Thanks so much for your response B200. One thing everyone has been consistent about in this discussion was the lack of hard information. You take on a very difficult task when you take kids to the woods, but it is very worthy and honorable. Thanks for what you do.

+ 2 on this post and B200's post. Welcome to WB bennington200. I love posts with a lot of hard cold facts!