Boy Scouts rescued from unexpected snow on Appalachian Trail - Lynchburg News and Adv

[ChuckT]

I know 2 things about the weather.
1) Look outside.
2) What's on the telly is composed to put someone in a good light.
Here in East Central Fla. The weather forecast is ah adjusted to keep the tourists from realizing that Disney really is on earth and you are (oh horrors) outside.

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk.

[bobp]

Sounds to me they were not even perpared for rain then eveyone and everything they had got soaking wet. The snow might have been a suprise, but the rain shouldn't have been. But we've all seen how these kids were likely dressed. Sneakers, blue jeans, cotton hoodies and trash bag rain gear. There's a FS road which crosses the trail every 3-4 miles through that area. They could have bailed at any one.

I'm honestly trying to figure out why you would jump to such a ridiculous conclusion about the Scouts' wardrobe based on no information. And I'm failing.

[Spirit Walker]

What I don't get is why they called for help. It wasn't far to the road, so unless some of the children were seriously hypothermic, why ask for rescue? They should be teaching the kids how to be self-sufficient, not to call for help unnecessarily. If I were the Scout leader, I'd be seriously embarrassed at wasting people's time and resources.

[Slo-go'en]

I'm honestly trying to figure out why you would jump to such a ridiculous conclusion about the Scouts' wardrobe based on no information. And I'm failing.

Because I've seen it a 1000 times.

[Studlintsean]

I can validate the bad weather reports 1st hand. I checked SNP weather for this weekend on Friday morning and headed out with a forecast of 60s during the day Fri- Sun with "light" rain on Saturday. We had hard rain all day Saturday and woke up to a hard winter mix on Sunday at Rock Springs Hut with temps in the 20s. That said, its March and I took a 20 WM bag, a synthetic insulation layer, and a Cap 4 and was prepared for March mountain weather.

[Hill Ape]

Embarrassed... should that really be the standard? How old were these kids? How were they dressed? I can keep going with situational questions. They were in the moment, not having a philosophical discussion. Safety of the kids was primary.

[Hill Ape]

I'm wondering if some people's reactions are affected by whether or not you have children

[rickb]

Embarrassed... should that really be the standard? How old were these kids? How were they dressed? I can keep going with situational questions. They were in the moment, not having a philosophical discussion. Safety of the kids was primary.

Otherwise dynamic people can totally lack self confidence in the woods. Odd to those of us who are more comfortable there than at a party in the suburbs.

But there are even thru hikers (many, I think) who get the willies away from the blazes and have never ventured 200 feet from the treadway. Ever. They lack confidence and fear getting lost.

For one with far less time in on the Trail, a snow covered trail could challenge one's confidence and scare them into thinking they could get lost along it in a similar way.

Having responsibility of a group behind you could erode that confidence further. So a call is rationalized as the responsible thing, and the phone call is made.

That's my working hypothesis anyway.

[rafe]

The trail can be spooky and hard to follow in winter. Many of the visual cues that you rely upon are inoperative. I don't hike alone in winter anymore, at least not deep backcountry. But I'm just an old phart.

[Marta]

What I don't get is why they called for help. It wasn't far to the road, so unless some of the children were seriously hypothermic, why ask for rescue? They should be teaching the kids how to be self-sufficient, not to call for help unnecessarily. If I were the Scout leader, I'd be seriously embarrassed at wasting people's time and resources.

Agreed…and I have children.

Bailout plans--plans that don't include calling 911--should be part of every trip plan, especially when you've got a group of kids.

The most ludicrous Scout rescue I know of occurred in the Grayson Highlands eight or ten years ago. Thirty Scouts and ten or so adults hiked themselves a couple of miles in, it rained all afternoon, and the temperature dropped into the single digits overnight. A bunch of the kids had left their boots outside their tents. In the morning the boots were frozen. A couple of adults hiked out and called for rescue. It took all day for the rescue squad to shuttle the gigantic group (40 people!) away front their campsite.

The leaders all claimed they had no idea the weather was going to turn bad. I found that particularly odd, since I had planned to hike in the Grayson Highlands that same weekend, checked the weather forecast Friday morning, saw how likely it was the roads would ice over, and bailed on the trip. (I went skiing in Banner Elk instead--the single worst day of skiing I've ever had, on sheet ice at -6 degrees. A waste of lift ticket money.)

If you're only a mile or two from the road, you'll get yourself out of the situation more quickly by just walking out, rather than waiting for help.

[Papa D]

I've been banned from talking bad about the Scouts (so I'm not going to). I'll just say that being prepared means just that.
I spend a LOT of time in the woods in the winter - serious cold and snow - if you are not truly prepared (and actually experienced) -
not just a gung ho Dad - just don't go - do something else (or hire a guide) - P/M me for my number, I'll keep you happy and warm.

[Akela]

As a boy and girl scout leader I can tell that they learn to be prepared, but it is a work on progress. They lead the activities and make mistakes . Doesn't matter how many times you tell them about the appropriate clothing, somebody will show up in jeans. Adult leaders role is safety. Plan ahead and have an emergency plan ready.
Many people get in trouble with changing weather but it surely will make the news if scouts are involved.
By the record, I've backpacking this weekend at SNP with my girl scouts...no call had to be made

[rickb]

The trail can be spooky and hard to follow in winter. Many of the visual cues that you rely upon are inoperative. I don't hike alone in winter anymore, at least not deep backcountry. But I'm just an old phart.

Experienced hikers have a much better feel for where the trail goes, too.

If the Scouts didn't have a phone, my guess is that they would have summoned the courage to walk out and this story would never have seen the light of day.

When the call came in, my guess is that the authorities didn't even consider just giving advise or sending in a single responder with a radio to assess, and help the Scout's help themselves. They were compelled to go into full blown rescue mode.

[WingedMonkey]

[QUOTE=rickb;1866918If the Scouts didn't have a phone, my guess is that they would have summoned the courage to walk out and this story would never have seen the light of day[/QUOTE]

They had to take their phones.

They were working on their tweeting merit badge.

[WorldPeaceAndStuff]

Snow was not unexpected Sat night into Sunday. It was clearly forecasted days in advance by NWS Blacksburg. The smokies up through WV apps were all called for snow.

[perdidochas]

What I don't get is why they called for help. It wasn't far to the road, so unless some of the children were seriously hypothermic, why ask for rescue? They should be teaching the kids how to be self-sufficient, not to call for help unnecessarily. If I were the Scout leader, I'd be seriously embarrassed at wasting people's time and resources.

The Scout Leader is the one that the parents will blame if something goes wrong, not you. He is the one that the parents will sue. He is the one that will be yelled at by parents. He's the one that lives in the same town/goes to the same church as the Scouts. I'm a Scout leader. Here in the comfort of a warm spring day in Florida, I would say that I would have not called for help when he did, but if I was hiking through inches of snow, I'm not so certain. I hope that I would have figured out a way for the Scouts to rescue themselves, but I'm not going to second guess him, based on the kids he had with him.

[Old Hiker]

Otherwise dynamic people can totally lack self confidence in the woods. Odd to those of us who are more comfortable there than at a party in the suburbs.

But there are even thru hikers (many, I think) who get the willies away from the blazes and have never ventured 200 feet from the treadway. Ever. They lack confidence and fear getting lost.

For one with far less time in on the Trail, a snow covered trail could challenge one's confidence and scare them into thinking they could get lost along it in a similar way.

Having responsibility of a group behind you could erode that confidence further. So a call is rationalized as the responsible thing, and the phone call is made.

That's my working hypothesis anyway.

Ran the above post (emphasis added) through my Bing translator and came up with: fear of lawsuit. Even with the insurance provided, I'm always leery of the kids who are NOT taught to respect authority and seem to do whatever they want to, usually with mom/dad/auntie/guardian's permission. And then it's MY fault.

Glad it wasn't me, having to try and decide.

[myakka_]

I am going to rant a little, and I realize that this is more about my views on the state of our mental attitude in this country and less about the actual event, but........................

It just seems to me that we are conditioning people on every level to be helpless. Now "Scouting", whose motto is "be prepared", has taught these kids that when the going gets rough, call 911.

One of the first interviews after SuperStorm Sandy was a lady who immediately looked at the camera and said "Where is FEMA? P. Obama What are you going to do for us?" Since when is it up to someone else to take care of a perfectly healthy adult who could and should have made some preparations?

I have made a career of being a rescuer. And it seems that people are getting more and more dependent. The automatic default when something unexpected happens is to call for help. The idea of self reliance and strength of independence has become completely foreign to us.

I did scouting, and we were expected to persevere, adapt, and think of solutions. When I used to take kids camping, the little set-backs like a broken tent pole were opportunities to have the kids problem solve and come up with solutions. This built confidence and made for more complete adults down the road (imho)

I know I am totally biased, and it is unfair to judge this event without the full story but, it just hit me as totally ironic that the quote from the news article was that they called for help because they "were not prepared".

So maybe the new motto for the scouts should be "Be Prepared............to dial 911"

Ok..... rant done.

[fiddlehead]

There's no way I'd ever be a volunteer scouting leader.
Look at the posts above if you would wonder why.

When I was a scout, we'd go out in snow, and winter and build fires to keep warm, hunker down and cook a lot of food.
Now-a-days, fires aren't allowed, you get sued if one of your kids has a problem that you weren't aware of, and you'd always be worried whether you are going to get blamed for something.

At least these kids (and their leaders) are outside.
The troop in our nearby town in PA hikes to McDonalds for **** sake!

[HikerMom58]

There's no way I'd ever be a volunteer scouting leader.
Look at the posts above if you would wonder why.

When I was a scout, we'd go out in snow, and winter and build fires to keep warm, hunker down and cook a lot of food.
Now-a-days, fires aren't allowed, you get sued if one of your kids has a problem that you weren't aware of, and you'd always be worried whether you are going to get blamed for something.

At least these kids (and their leaders) are outside.
The troop in our nearby town in PA hikes to McDonalds for **** sake!

Interesting posts in this thread...I can see where everyone is coming from... This one "nails it" for me, tho.