A few questions about the Smokies!

[Nar Nar]

Hey guys, planning a week or so in the Smokies in June with a few buddies, and I have a few questions. If you all would be kind enough to answer all/some of them I would greatly appreciate it.
1. I'm a Long Trail end-to-ender, so I'm used to the hiking up here in New England. How hard is the hiking down there in general, compared to New England? Would it be unrealistic to be doing close to 20 miles a couple days with an ultralight setup and in pretty good shape?
2. With the new reservation system, you have the 30 days before you leave to reserve the spots online, correct? Should we try to reserve the sites immediately when it becomes available to do so for each one, because they might fill up (particularly along the AT), or should we need not worry about that as much?
3. What is the best map to carry during the hike? We are not going to just be on the AT so I would prefer more than just an elevation profile. We have the Nation Geographic one, but it's very bulky and heavy, are there any lighter ones available, or even some detailed print outs?
4. I've seen some videos on Youtube of people getting lost on some of the more remote trails (not the AT), how common is this and how can it be avoided? Are the trails well marked/defined in most areas?

Appreciate it guys, thanks!

[max patch]

Since you are not a thru-hiker as defined by the GSMNP you will have to reserve a specific shelter for each specific day. So I would make my reservations 30 days before my first camping nite in the GSMNP to avoid disappointment.

[moldy]

1. It's like a kind version of the Whites. The trail is made to be easier. 20 mile days are doable 15's are better.
2. The shelter reservation system should be contacted exactly 30 days before your trip. School is out, lots of hikers in June. Be ready with plan B.
3. A better profile map is either in the Thru hiker companion or profile map book sold by the ATC
4. Compared to the Whites GSMNP trails are way better marked.

[bigcranky]

Yeah, make the reservations as early as possible. You can do 20s once you hit the top of the ridge. I'm an out of shape section hiker and did 19 my last day coming down to Davenport Gap.


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[Slo-go'en]

Definately make reservations as soon as you are allowed.

The trails are significantly easier then Vermont. How far you go each day will be most determined by which shelters you stay at. There are pretty good climbs at each end of the park but the middle sections aren't bad. I do 15's through there without much trouble.

If your just doing the AT, no real need for a map. The free tourist hand out map is enough. The Nat Geo map is the best for a really detailed map of the park. Trials are well marked, you just need to pay attention.

[sliderule]

Should we try to reserve the sites immediately when it becomes available to do so for each one...

The 30 days in advance policy is based on the start of the trip; it's not a rolling lead time for each day of the trip. Once you choose your first site, you can reserve an additional six nights on the same permit. (Meaning that you can reserve your last night as much as 36 days in advance.)

[redseal]

I am used to the New England mountains as well. My wife and I just did GSMNP on the AT last year. Compared to our normal terrain, the park was a piece of cake. 20 miles a day is certainly do-able. Here is our trip report if you want to check it out...be sure to look beyond Day! http://www.backpackingengineer.com/blog.php/33

[HeartFire]

I've hiked all but 10 miles of trails in the GSMNP. It is easier for the most part than the Long Trail. the 'dollar map' at the ranger station or visitors center will give you all the info you need. The trails are well marked, fairly well maintained, some are horse trails - these are more eroded than the foot only trails. Make your reservations on line as early as possible. You shouldn't have any trouble reserving the AT shelters in June. Where you may have trouble is the middle to late June is Flame Azalea season, and certain campsite (Gregory Bald) will fill up immediately.
20 miles a day is piece of cake for the most part in the park.

[HooKooDooKu]

1. I'm not familiar with New England, but I am very familiar with the GSMNP. You are going to have hills. As such, if you think you can do 20, I would suggest you plan on 12-15 per day.

2. 30 days before the start of your trip, book all your shelter/campsites for the entire trip.

3. GSMNP seems to have taken the attitude that it is cheaper to try to prevent hikers from getting lost than it is to go search for lost hikers. As such, trail intersections are very well marked. All you will need is the dollar map you can pick up at any ranger station or visitor's center. You can preview a PDF copy of the map here. The trails are not exactly to scale as fine details of trail routing are lost on such a small map. But it is all you need to prevent getting lost.

However the trail map won't show you very well how the elevations change. For that, you need Google Earth or the little brown book. The trails in Google Earth has some mistakes. You can get better results from downloading the Google Earth KML files you can open in Google Earth from the UTK website. But be warned, you need to pay attention to the trails on the dollar map to know what official trails are still open. Over the years, a few trails have been abandoned and other rerouted. Some of these other sources (Brown Book, Google Earth, UTK data) might still have info on trails that are now abandoned and unmaintained. And from what I've seen over the years, you don't want to bother with unmaintained trails because of how quickly they get over grown or blocked by blow downs. However, don't be surprised when you're out in the woods and encounter some trails not shown on the map. Some are well known and maintained simply by the number of people who continue to use them, others are marked but just not listed on the map (such as some trails to cemeteries or overlooks).

4. I've only read about some spots along Lake Shore Trail where there are just a few spots that trails seem to go off in every direction (like in areas that used to be towns before the park was established). But otherwise, 99.9% of the time, the trails are easy to follow. Generally speaking, the mountains are so steep with so much vegetation, the only place to walk without bush-whacking is to stay on the trail. So even when looking at a map it looks like a short cut someplace if you just cut through the woods 'off-trail'... don't plan or expect to be able to do it. Staying on the trail will be faster.

The one thing the map doesn't provide you is changes in elevation. To better guage that, use Google Earth. T

[Duramax22]

1. Dont know
2. yes
3. National Geographics map hands down is the best for the smokies
4. Most trails are pretty well used. Iv hiked around 60% of the trails and never been lost.

[Nar Nar]

Thanks for the helpful information everyone. I didn't know you could reserve all the sites for one permit all at once even if they are more than 30 days in advance, that is helpful. Looks like we will have to get two permits because we are staying more than 6 nights.

[HooKooDooKu]

Thanks for the helpful information everyone. I didn't know you could reserve all the sites for one permit all at once even if they are more than 30 days in advance, that is helpful. Looks like we will have to get two permits because we are staying more than 6 nights.

Website says permits are good for upto 7 nights. You only need multiple permits if you stay in the back country 8 nights or more.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

smokies are easier compared to NH or ME 20 is possible depending on the weather when you hike if there is 1-2 feet of snow which is entirely possible in march it is unlikely

[MuddyWaters]

The park map showing the trails will be all you will need. You really cant get off the trail, nor would you want too. Much of the AT is a ridgetop walk once up on the ridge.

[Bati]

The park map showing the trails will be all you will need.

I would recommend this one and a topo map ( I used an old AT map; few trails have been rerouted and there's no mountaintop removal inside the park. ) It's very easy to get lost by hiking on the wrong trail as the AT is blazed for winter hiking but the other trails are not. You may want to topo to confirm you're headed in the right direction or to search for ways around fords if you take one of the trails with potentially dangerous fords during a rainy season (again, the AT has no fords, but some of the other trails do). These trails are noted on the Cheap park map, which I believe was a dollar and available at the park entrances.

[HooKooDooKu]

It's very easy to get lost by hiking on the wrong trail as the AT is blazed for winter hiking but the other trails are not.

While trails are not blazed, the trail intersections are very well marked. So I believe the $1 map is all you need to keep your orientation at trail intersections.

I've carried the National Geographic water proof map (the whole park on front/back combined). In the years I've hike GSMNP, the only time I ever broke out the map was when I got lost night hiking when I came upon a spot with tons of manways around a water fall. But the topo map wasn't detailed enough to figure out which way to go.

So if you are going to bother to take a topo map, you need the standard 1:25000(?) quad maps to provide you will enough detail to tell you anything.

An alternative if you carry a GPS is to use the details found at the UTK site for GSMNP GPS trails and camp sites. I'll use that to lay out a detailed route. I mainly use it so I can answer the question "how much farther?"... but it can be done detailed enough to be used as a source to stay on the path.

[Nar Nar]

So we will have to stop by a Ranger Station or Visitor's center to find the $1 map? It has milage and everything except for topography correct?

[martinb]

You can D/L a trail map here: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisi...ULY13-full.pdf

[HooKooDooKu]

That's the link to a PDF version of the $1 map in it's full color. The $1 map is exactly that PDF printed (double side) on a page that is about 2' tall and 3' wide (give or take)... except that for some reason, the PDF has two copies of the back page.

I know for sure that you can pick up a copy of the $1 map from any of the GSMNP Visitor's Centers (like Sugarlands and Oconaluftee).
It used to be sold via an honor box at the Ranger Station Kiosks where you used to fill out your backcountry permits. But since you are supposed to get your permit printed out online ahead of time, I don't know if they keep the Kiosks filled. There's a distinct possibility that they do as the Kiosks are still used as the bulletin boards where they post warnings for the back country (such as trail and campsite closures, or bear warnings).

[TNhiker]

i saw that the kiosk at sugarlands still had the honor box map system going....