AWOL"S GUIDE for the PCT???!?

[lonehiker]

To me it's pretty boring walking through outstanding scenery, only having the basic trail data.

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It is not like you aren't still seeing all of the geology, flora, and fauna........ But, I understand your point it just isn't for me.

[Wolf - 23000]

So have you read Yogi's guide as preparation for hiking the PCT, then gone out and hiked it to see how it stacks up against reality, or did you just have a conversation with her once? I did the former and thought it was a great resource. Some people disagree, but your particular argument against it is horrendous.

I don't get how you can take a book that asks 12 different hikers what they carry and say that that premise alone means a) the book is useless and b) the author doesn't know anything about hiking. It actually shows that she knows one very basic thing about hiking--that different gear works for different people. If she's at ALDHA asking people what they carry, it means she's open to new ideas, either to use them herself or just to know about them. Why does that make her and her book stupid? She's a triple-crowner, is active on PCT-L, has probably read dozens if not a hundred full responses to her own survey, not to mention hikes now with something like an 8 1/2 lb base weight. She and her books are very very well-informed about modern gear.

Scrub Hiker,

As I stated before I use my own guide when I thru-hiked the PCT all three times, so no I have never read Yogi’s book. And yes my opinion is based on my conversation when she seemed clueless as to some of the gear that has been around for 20+ years. One could also say your argument is just plain silly that asking 12 different hikers what they carry does not make them an expert on hiking. Every backpack, sleeping bag, stove has been used to hike long distance by some hiker. It all information you could find from a Campmor catalog and $40 cheaper. The hiking gear you use really depends on where you are hiking, the time of year, how you are doing the trail, your experience, etc. Those are the things that really determine what gear you need. Getting a list of what some else carried at a point in time, does not tell you what is right for you.

When you meet people you make a judgment call. When I was able to do multiple thru-hikes back-to-back-to-back, I was up to about my second or third thru-hikes and could just by looking at someone gear tell the entire specification of any sleeping bag, stove, backpack, etc. The reason why was simple, I saw it so often year after year. Yes, I got tested many times by other hikers. Someone who hiked as much as she is saying would not need to ask someone about gear or not know about gear that been around for 20 years. They would already know this stuff.

If you are able to thru-hiking again this year and again in 2015 you will see what I mean. There is more useful places someone can spend their money.

Wolf

[Miner]

Sly and others,

I would suggest hikers not use Yogi's guide. I met Yogi at this past year's Gathering. She seemed clueless about gear that's been around for 20 years. I'm sorry but if somebody's still asking others, "what do you carry?", it doesn't impress me as somebody to give advice to others. If she's writing a book as an expert on the PCT shouldn't she be expecting to know what someone needs to carry to hike the PCT.

You do realize that what makes Yogi's guide good is the feedback and updates that hikers are constantly sending back to her. It isn't so much about what Yogi's current personal knowledge is though she did hike it 3.5times. In the planning guide portion, the advice on gear isn't her personal choices but rather it is given by a variety of past thru-hikers with different styles. She does replace the people in the planning guide every couple of years with new ones to catch what has chaned. Disclaimer, I was one of the ones that contributed to her guidebook when she redid it in fall of 2011 and have sent trail updates as I redo certain sections.

I don't think anyone uses Erik the Black's guide anymore. It had a reputation for being astronomically priced and very inaccurate. I would guess, conservatively, that 95% of the people using topo maps at all (which is maybe 70% of thru-hikers) use Halfmile's.

As I carried all the guidebooks available in 2009 when I hiked, I know its strengths and weaknesses. The price was the biggest and honest complaint. It wasn't that inaccurate and was easy to use. Some of the mileage was inconsistent in some miles felt harder and longer than others and it missed some minor climbs in the elevation profiles which was annoying. The biggest complaint was the people who tried to use in in the big snow years that happened after 2009. It doesn't show enough of the surrounding terrain to navigate if the trail is burried under snow. Though I would carry the Tom Harrison JMT Map pack for the High Sierra in a big snow year or early entry no matter what guidebook I carried. To be honest, I still like the way he did his maps (especially in his latest edition) over how halfmile maps are. But Halfmiles are complete and sorta-free (except printing costs) so you can't really complain about that.

[SCRUB HIKER]

Scrub Hiker,

As I stated before I use my own guide when I thru-hiked the PCT all three times, so no I have never read Yogi’s book. And yes my opinion is based on my conversation when she seemed clueless as to some of the gear that has been around for 20+ years. One could also say your argument is just plain silly that asking 12 different hikers what they carry does not make them an expert on hiking. Every backpack, sleeping bag, stove has been used to hike long distance by some hiker. It all information you could find from a Campmor catalog and $40 cheaper. The hiking gear you use really depends on where you are hiking, the time of year, how you are doing the trail, your experience, etc. Those are the things that really determine what gear you need. Getting a list of what some else carried at a point in time, does not tell you what is right for you.

I'm getting the sense that not only have you not read Yogi's guide, you have no idea whatsoever what's in it. All the things that really matter, according to you, are also contained in there. In that case, you should avoid saying things like "I would suggest hikers not use Yogi's guide." Leave that to someone who's read it, used it for a hike, and moreover believes in the entire idea of research, which you apparently disavow insofar as I can follow your logic.

[samgriffin4]

Yogi's town guide is handy but not necessary. Halfmile's maps are great. Don't forget about AsAbat's water info for SoCal, this is key.

Halfmile's GPS waypoints are a lifesaver in the Sierras where you can't see the trail because of snow. If you don't have a GPS you can download them to your phone (that is, if you have snow). 2011 was interesting.

Godspeed!

[Coffee]

I haven't hiked the Colorado Trail yet but I've found Yogi's CT guide useful for logistical planning. Unless her guide proves to be horrendously misleading and leads me astray once on the trail, I plan to buy her PCT guide for 2015. I believe a new version should be out before that time.

[samgriffin4]

No way, Yogi's guide will not lead you astray. It's been updated several times, and in my version I found several things to be out of date (smart phones weren't mainstream when my edition was published, so phone cards and palm pilot pocket email devices were a topic of discussion), but the vast majority of the information is great.

The town guide is also really good for knowing where to hitch, finding a place to stay, a hiker friendly place to eat, trail angel information, post office info, the list goes on and on. It almost makes it too easy haha.

[Wolf - 23000]

Scrub Hiker,
I’m not trying to belittle anyone experience by this (including you) but there are some things new hikers don’t see that veteran hikers will. When something is not completely accurate or could have be done better in a book or video it can make it difficult to correct that misconception. The same hikers that want to promote her book, were also the same hikers asking me why I was carrying so much less than they were in 2012. It can make things more difficult to help someone even if I never reading the book.
Have you ever used the Pocket PCT? I would recommend it. I used something similar when I did my thru-hikes without any problems. I only used it for a couple hundred miles and it worked fine for me. It told me everything I needed to know. It was easy to download, print out and jump on the trail without having to spend $40.00+. Last month, I used the Pocket PCT to help plan for a group that will be thru-hiking this year. It made things very easy to coordination. You don’t have to spend a lot of money just to go hiking.
There is a lot of stale information out there that is not always helpful. Recently I asked the question on WB about were not entering the Sierras before 15-June came from. Another hiker pointed out that Ray Jardine was the one who placed it in his book. I never read his book either and knew that wasn’t true. Still it made it harder to convince the head of the group that never hiked the PCT it is ok to go through earlier and redo the scheduling he already made up. Would you like to tell someone asking for your help, that after they spent several hundreds of dollars, they could have made a better choice if they had better information? When someone who portrays themselves as an expert seems clueless about what to carry it raise a red flag with me.

Wolf

[Wolf - 23000]

You do realize that what makes Yogi's guide good is the feedback and updates that hikers are constantly sending back to her. It isn't so much about what Yogi's current personal knowledge is though she did hike it 3.5times. In the planning guide portion, the advice on gear isn't her personal choices but rather it is given by a variety of past thru-hikers with different styles. She does replace the people in the planning guide every couple of years with new ones to catch what has chaned. Disclaimer, I was one of the ones that contributed to her guidebook when she redid it in fall of 2011 and have sent trail updates as I redo certain sections.

Miner,
A book that relies on hikers’ feedback can also be dangerous. The originally Hiking book that relied mainly on other hikers feedback was “The Philosopher's Guide” – used1981 - 1990. The Philosopher’s Guide gave a listing of trail conductions, stores, restaurant, hostels, etc along with hikers’ feedback similar to Yogi’s book. He also put a lot of people out of business - not because they did anything wrong. When he stopped writing, more hostels appeared along the trail. I’ll explain.
When one hostel is listed as more popular than another, because of hiker feedback, the next year hikers are more like going to go there. It is very hard to break that cycle even if another service is just as friendly or offer better services. Sense you redo sections you might appreciate this more. Imagine instead of three hostels offer in town there is only one place all hikers hang out. I can tell you many of them are very burn out at the end of the hiking season.
Wolf

[Colter]

In my opinion they are well worth the money. I think they are a great starting point in planning. Her guides will answer questions people don't even know to ask. I would, without hesitation, recommend her guide to anyone who hasn't hiked the trail before.

Yogi has hiked the Triple Crown and the PCT multiple times, certainly an experienced hiking veteran. The advice of Scott Williamson and many other thru-hikers is featured as well.

[Miner]

Picking between several Hostels? You are starting to sound like you are describing the AT and not the PCT. At least not the PCT I know. You are lucky if there is a single trail angel or hostel in a trail town. Most places you are picking from a hotel/motel or a campground in town where price and location are the biggest worries. Your experiences don't necessary match mine or other hikers I know so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the usefullness of Yogi's PCT guidebook. Yes, you can find the information elsewhere and it isn't necessary to have inorder to complete a PCT thru-hike, but it makes it easier and takes some of the work out of it.

I don't think I ever saw your question about Ray Day (June 15th) as I have my own strong opinions on that matter. However, since I knew from whom it came from I actually bothered to track down and buy a used copy of the first edition of his original PCT guide to see the logic behind it before I hiked. And no, it has nothing to do with research and analysis of what the best time to enter is. Ray Jardine never used the date himself on his 2 NOBO hikes and always went in earlier (the first time mid May). The date comes from his various hiking schedules for people with different daily mileages and he artificially had them all converging at Kennedy Meadows in Mid June. It seemed to have more to do with creating an artificial gathering ADZPCTKO like gathering where experienced and inexperienced people could come together and form teams before entering the High Sierra. Ray Jardine was successful in this only the gathering formed near the border 6 weeks earlier instead of at Kennedy Meadows. I wrote a huge rant on my pre-trip PCT journal about it before I hiked and posted it once or twice on the PCT-L since then.

[Wolf - 23000]

Picking between several Hostels? You are starting to sound like you are describing the AT and not the PCT. At least not the PCT I know. You are lucky if there is a single trail angel or hostel in a trail town. Most places you are picking from a hotel/motel or a campground in town where price and location are the biggest worries. Your experiences don't necessary match mine or other hikers I know so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the usefullness of Yogi's PCT guidebook. Yes, you can find the information elsewhere and it isn't necessary to have inorder to complete a PCT thru-hike, but it makes it easier and takes some of the work out of it.

I don't think I ever saw your question about Ray Day (June 15th) as I have my own strong opinions on that matter. However, since I knew from whom it came from I actually bothered to track down and buy a used copy of the first edition of his original PCT guide to see the logic behind it before I hiked. And no, it has nothing to do with research and analysis of what the best time to enter is. Ray Jardine never used the date himself on his 2 NOBO hikes and always went in earlier (the first time mid May). The date comes from his various hiking schedules for people with different daily mileages and he artificially had them all converging at Kennedy Meadows in Mid June. It seemed to have more to do with creating an artificial gathering ADZPCTKO like gathering where experienced and inexperienced people could come together and form teams before entering the High Sierra. Ray Jardine was successful in this only the gathering formed near the border 6 weeks earlier instead of at Kennedy Meadows. I wrote a huge rant on my pre-trip PCT journal about it before I hiked and posted it once or twice on the PCT-L since then.

Miner,

My point about the hostels was more that printing hikers' feedback can also have some invert affects. Yes the PCT does not have many hostels but there still is a good number of hotels/motels along the way. Some of hotels/motels are very hikers friendly others not so much. When hikers spread out through the towns, it promotes the hiking as a whole. The more hotels/motels compete over hikers business the better off hikers are.

Hikers' feedback is not always helpful. When I hike I focus on what I'm carrying instead of what others hikers are doing. It has served me well. When I did the PCT back in 1993, 1996, 1997, I carried a kid school book bag reinforced. There are lighter packs now but back in the 1990s they were not around yet. If I listen to Yogi's hikers advise on gear, do you really think there is anything suggesting hikers could use a book bag to hike the PCT? If I listen to the hikers around that time of year, I should have expected to carry 30-50 pounds. I found out going out there I did not need half that.

A trail book needs three things to be helpful. The miles between point-to-point (including water points), town services/directions and tips along the trail such as which way to turn at forks. The PCT Pocket Guide has all that and it is FREE and more. It is excel so it is very easy create elevation charts, plan how many miles you need to do between town stops. The internet is also available to answer any question hikers could have about the PCT. Google Maps can be used to print out up to date town maps. All this is available and it is free. Why is Yogi's or AWOL's book even needed?

I did the trail several years before Yogi or AWOL's book ever came out. I made it fine without her book just like many other hikers. The trail is now a lot easier - instead of long waterless stretches there are now plan water catches for example, gear is now lighter compare to back in the 1990s. Yet hikers are still carrying about the same pack weight as when I did the trail back in the 1990s. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a need for either book.

Thank you for finding out where the 15-June date came from. There are a lot of hiking books that it is impossible to keep up with who printed what.

Wolf

[Sasquatch!]

Here is what I used last year. I will use the same this year:

-Yogi's guide
-Backcountry Navigator with Halfmile's Waypoints
-The Water Report
-PCT Databook

Everything was loaded onto my Samsung Galaxy S3.

I found Yogi's guide to contain a lot of useless opinion about restaurants, etc. Also there is all this talk of 'this climb is going to be real hard' and it just isnt, type stuff. Scott Williamsons input about water sources, and town information, is invaluable.

I updated the water report whenever I had internet. Water report is a must.

I wont go into the backcountry without backcountry navigator, ample battery backup, and/or a solar charger. BCN is an amazing app, and combined with Halfmiles waypoints, is also invaluable.

[10-K]

How did you get Yogi's guide in your Galaxy?

[Mags]

Wolf,

The resources are free indeed.

But, not everyone wants to fish through the internet, compile their own data and charts, make their own town maps via Google, print and/or put it into PDF for convenience and so on.

Their is something to be said for having a compilation, with opinions from different people, all in one place already done.

Glad you had the time, initiative and desire to make your own book.

That is one option and perhaps not the best for everyone.

What worked for you is not the "right" way...it is just *A* way.

As far as carrying the same weight. For any long hike, I honestly think there is a point of diminishing returns once you start getting below 10 lbs or so. It just becomes a bragging contest for most people just to say they have a light pack. People can do, and have done, multi-week or multi-month hikes with sub-5lbs.

For most people though, myself included, it is too much of a compromise. You are an outlier and it works for you. Glad you can have a notch on your 23000 miles of hiking and say you went super duper UL with a book bag, some Saran wrap and some duct tape before it was cool. But that is atypical then, now or probably 20 yrs for now (unless some new unobtanium material is made).

[Sasquatch!]

I bought it. Scanned every page. Turned it into a single 100 megabyte pdf file. Took a few hours.

Technically illegal. Yogi could sue me if she had a lot of time and money to waste. However, since I did not profit from, or even share my digital copy, Ive broken no criminal law.

[SCRUB HIKER]

I bought it. Scanned every page. Turned it into a single 100 megabyte pdf file. Took a few hours.

Technically illegal. Yogi could sue me if she had a lot of time and money to waste. However, since I did not profit from, or even share my digital copy, Ive broken no criminal law.

I can think of 3 other people I knew who had done this. As far as I know, no one shared theirs, but who really knows ...? Yogi so far has steadfastly refused to make an e-book version of her guides (using the dubious rationale of "electronics will break on the trail"). If she made her own e-version, it would almost certainly cut down on the number of pirated copies out there because no one would have incentive to scan their own stuff into PDFs that they could then share with anyone if they so desired.

Re: Halfmile's water report. It's in a Google Docs spreadsheet, so if you have a smartphone and the Google Drive app, you should be able to view it both online and offline, and have your phone automatically scan for updates when you have a data connection. This is what I did and it worked like a charm. The water report, at least in the desert, was more important and heavily used than the maps, apps or Yogi's guide.

[Wolf - 23000]

Wolf,

The resources are free indeed.

But, not everyone wants to fish through the internet, compile their own data and charts, make their own town maps via Google, print and/or put it into PDF for convenience and so on.

Their is something to be said for having a compilation, with opinions from different people, all in one place already done.

Glad you had the time, initiative and desire to make your own book.

That is one option and perhaps not the best for everyone.

What worked for you is not the "right" way...it is just *A* way.

As far as carrying the same weight. For any long hike, I honestly think there is a point of diminishing returns once you start getting below 10 lbs or so. It just becomes a bragging contest for most people just to say they have a light pack. People can do, and have done, multi-week or multi-month hikes with sub-5lbs.

For most people though, myself included, it is too much of a compromise. You are an outlier and it works for you. Glad you can have a notch on your 23000 miles of hiking and say you went super duper UL with a book bag, some Saran wrap and some duct tape before it was cool. But that is atypical then, now or probably 20 yrs for now (unless some new unobtanium material is made).

Mag,

Everyone does not have a lot of money to spare because something is “convenience”. Have you ever left the trail because you wasted your money on things you didn’t necessary need. It sucks! The Pocket PCT is in Excel. It is very easy to make elevation charts and save as a pdf without spending a lot of time. If you really want elevation charts, you are talking about 30 – 45 minutes of work tops. As for the town maps, most trail towns are not that big. Map quest, google maps are all sources that will do almost everything for you. It is pretty simple. Doing it yourself also gives you an idea on what to expect and how to pack to it.

No one has mention anything about traveling sub-5 pounds except you. Yes I do hike with less than a 5 pound base weight. Big deal! I’ve been doing so for the past 25 years. Wow! Did you ever think that maybe it might be that I feel closer to nature that way? The more items I carry, makes me feel like a visitor instead feeling more in tune with the wilderness. I’m not trying to preach my style of backpacking but it the way I like to travel. HYOH.

As for the bragging part … hum. How many articles have you written to get your name out there? Or has their own website? Or needs to fudge your status to be consider an “ultra-light”.

While you are out there hiking, are you the one who that everyone seems to come and ask, “what do you carry?”, “how do you backpack so light?” “how do you do that?” because the “experts” writing these articles/books didn’t want to teach the fundamental basic. It gets a little old when the same stale information is put out year after year that is not always actuate. Just an example: Do you really to need carry 2 pounds of food. If someone weight is 200 pounds then maybe, if they weight is only 100 pounds then most likely no.

Wolf

[Sasquatch!]

The one time I used a paper water report I lost it. So, its blowing around out there now. Never lost my phone. If it breaks Id get off trail an replace it. No big deal. Saves me so much weight. Has so many uses. Even used it as a mirror most mornings to put my contacts in.

[Mags]

...eh..heck with it. I had a long response. But it ain't worth it.

Wolf, listen to "Glory Days" by Springsteen. Describes your posts much better than I ever could.

Cheers!