Gear list questions

[RobinHood]

Hello,

Here's a list of the gear I plan on taking mid-March or early April. http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=16794
Clothing seems to be my greatest weight factor (I have to have boots because of my weak ankles, at least to start with), but I have this nagging feeling that I won't have enough and I'm going to freeze. Any suggestions about clothing?
As for the rest of the gear, is there anything that I left out or is completely unnecessary?
Any advice/criticism/ridicule is welcome. Thanks!

[Tom Murphy]

- the UL down jacket is great for an insulating layer in camp, but IMO it is a bad choice for an insulating layer while hiking - I would change that out to a heavy weight wool top or wool sweater and take the weight plenty; or a fleece pile top (assuming the fleece jacket you listed is a denser fleece material [wind / water resistant])

- rope ? 50 ft ? why ?

- the micra is perfect, I find I use scissors the most

- i loving using a quilt in the three seasons but I switch to a sleeping bag in the winter due to the contruction features that help retain body heat; this is where I think you MIGHT have issues staying warm - early in the hike while sleeping with a quilt

- your total sleep system is pretty good - quilt, wool hat, balaclava, wool gloves, long johns, pants, top, fleeece jacket, ul down jacket, two pairs of socks, z-rest - so you might be fine

- the problem with the down jacket is that if under the fleece jacket you may sweat into the down, reducing its potential; over your fleece jacket and it is expeosed to heat robbing wind - it really works best around camp when you are sheltered from the wind and not active (sweating)

- not sure if your gloves are just wool liners gloves; if so, a pair of wind proof mittens that fit over them would be ideal ; basicaly the 3-in-1 glove set-up that EMS / REI / OR, etc sell

[RobinHood]

Thanks for the reply

My plan was to only use the UL down while in camp. While hiking I planned on wearing the shirt, fleece jacket (not wind or water resistant), and rain coat if needed. Do you not think that would be enough?

The 550 cord is for bear bagging if need be.... but I take it that's not necessary.

The gloves are just liners, I'll look into wind proof mittens.

[Duramax22]

Depending on how much you plan to use your iphone, you can ditch the battery pack. I easily get 5 days of looking at weather, checking time, listening to music, and some text. prolly dont need a balacava and a wool hat. one or the other should be fine. I think you have plenty of clothing. i carry dyneema ironwire for bear cord well really for mice. your list looks pretty good

[turtle fast]

I would not be so fast to not take the 550 cord. Apart from bear bagging it has many uses. Take the likely scenario where you have been slogging all day through a downpour and you are absolutely wet and some of your gear in the pack is too and you get to a shelter. and that line is gold to hang and try to dry some of your stuff. Ive been at shelters where the entire front was covered in cord and drying gear from several hikers.

[Tom Murphy]

In case it wasn't clear, that is a very good list. We are kind of nit-picking here. For example, if you find it is cold enough to need the down jacket while hiking you can just reduce your speed [exertion level] to prevent sweating into the down.

I assume you are sleeping outside this winter to get a feel for the temps limits of your gear & you can research seasonal avg/high/lows.

[Blissful]

I don't see your list. It doesn't come up for me. But any list for a start should include an insulated jacket, hat, gloves, baselayer to change into at camp. I also took a short sleeve shirt as sometimes temps can spike.

Wearing boots for weak ankles is a misnomer. Strengthen your ankles with a wobble board and exercises. It's better to have a properly fitted shoes and insoles and take trekking poles.

[RobinHood]

Thanks for the comments.
Something happened with GearGrams, here's the new link: http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=16810

I know it's somewhat of a misnomer, and I'll probably switch to trail runners once it heats up a bit. But to start off I think it would be good for my piece of mind.

[CarlZ993]

Overall, a nice list. Some of what you're planning to bring was lighter than what I carried. Some of it is heavier.

I also used trail runners for the entire trail - Brooks Cascadias. Finished w/ my 4th pair. I recommend trail runners. I also recommend a light, water-proof stuff sack for your shoes. Put your wet shoes in them & sleep w/ them in your sleeping bag. That way, you won't have to put on frozen-stiff shoes in the morning. Later in the hike, you can send that sack home.

I had my AWOL Guide separated in fourths. Save a little weight. Not much, but a little. I made sure I always carried the page that had all the gear phone numbers.

I wish you luck on your hike. Just be prepared to hike a lot in bad weather. 2013 was especially bad from what I've heard from Hostel operators along the way. Hopefully, your year won't be quite so bad. Happy Trails.

[Nooga]

Thanks for the reply

My plan was to only use the UL down while in camp. While hiking I planned on wearing the shirt, fleece jacket (not wind or water resistant), and rain coat if needed. Do you not think that would be enough?

The 550 cord is for bear bagging if need be.... but I take it that's not necessary.

The gloves are just liners, I'll look into wind proof mittens.

I don't think that you need both the fleece and UL down jacket. I would only carry the UL down jacket. For hiking, the long sleeve shirt and your rain coat should be more than sufficient for a late March / early April start date. Definitely keep the rope for bear bagging. It weighs less than 2 oz.

[RobinHood]

I don't think that you need both the fleece and UL down jacket. I would only carry the UL down jacket. For hiking, the long sleeve shirt and your rain coat should be more than sufficient for a late March / early April start date. Definitely keep the rope for bear bagging. It weighs less than 2 oz.

And what about a late Feb start date?

[SoulSista]

While I agree with properly fitted shoes (or boots) are the best way to go, I too have the weak ankle issue, and no amount of wobble board time will fix what is wrong with mine (genetic). I would recommend speaking to a specialist if you have the resources to do so, and see what he/she recommends. I found other excersizes that while they help strengthen the general area, won't ever fix the issue I have to deal with. I hike with good supportive shoes (Asics are my favorites) in summer months when my load will be well under 35lb. In the shoulder seasons however, I do still wear boots. Merrell makes some great boots that are comfy right out of the box, and don't weigh a ton. Keen makes a mud/snow boot that is quite light and will keep your feet warm to -20F, and they seem to dry faster than the average boot.

As far as the down vs synthetic thing- one could go on all day about the tradeoffs of one vs the other. I think (my opinion), is that most opt for a hybrid approach.

[RobinHood]

Yeah... my years in the military left my ankles in bad shape. After surgery and lots of therapy it's good but could be better. I'll look into a different pair of boots, the ones I have now are almost 2 pounds each.

[Dogwood]

UGGGh, 4 lbs of shoes on your feet, try it at the start if you want but I would seek to get that wt down to mid cuts weighing about 2-2.5 lbs(for the pr) or less or even beefier more supportive low cut trail runners that weigh sub 2 lbs(per pr) at some pt if you feel your ankles are up to it and as the hike evolves into warmer weather and your overall kit wt SHOULD be decreasing while your strength should be increasing. Lose 1-2 lbs on your feet and it COULD pay dividends IF DONE RIGHT to the health of not just your ankles but you're entire body. You're the best judge of when to go to lower cuts less weighter shoes though.

looks like you have your core(top half/torso) covered nicely with 5 separate possible layers but as Murphy said I strongly too doubt you will ever hike any appreciable distance while wearing all those 5 layers. You'll be heated up real fast even in March. Even in mar and certainly in April you'll have opps to hike in a Tee(it's not just for in camp!). Gotta tell ya something about those 5 layers though(also noticed you're from Sac) that Lukes jacket is not a true WP rain jacket IMHO. No way, even if the jacket has a WP front zip and is seam taped or seam sealed. Pertex Endurance IS NOT WP. Stats confirm it. 1000 mm hydrostatic head is not WP! http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=83841 That's a fairer weather jacket IMHO more applicable to say northern PCT thru-hike weather rather than the heavy rains of LONG duration you'll experience on an AT thru-hike. It is not IMHO a hardcore truly WP rain shell. Watch what you layer under it(such as the MB down jacket) because it will affect the down loft once the Pertex Endurance wets through and hence your warmth(insulation) capacity which you might need/rely on with the MB Ex especially with a 10* quilt inside your shelter nearly on in your thru. I'm not down on Luke's UL( He's got some NICE gear!) I'm just saying UNDERSTAND what that jacket can provide and may not provide in regards to performance!

Murphy gave a good suggestion about the hands too. Look for glove/mitt shells possibly WP(eVent, Gore PacLite, cuben HYBRID, etc) to go over the wool liners. Might factor in because I think(not 100% pos though) that Lukes jacket doesn't have hand pockets to help protect and warm your hands from the weather. Wet cold wool gloves with no hand pockets in your shell sucks. been there being stupid UL.

The AT is mostly a forested trail hence a Tilleys Hat(love mine though) to be used for sun is not much called for IMHO. However, might be useful to shed some water though(especially with the Pertex Endurance "rain" jacket. For warmth on the dome you have the beanie so the Tilleys isn't absolutely necessary for warmth.

Bottom Half(from waist to ankles) seems redundant to me. With the rain kilt that's 6 pieces on the bottom half. Can't you eliminate at least one of those Smartwool, I guess, boxer briefs? Is the rain kilt really going to keep ya dry and warm enough in march/Apr when it's windy raining hard or snowing in the low-mid 3o's* when also trying to stay warm and dry wearing those Smartwool Long Johns or TNF Convertible pants underneath? I don't dangle in a kilt so I'm just considering what you might have planned in that scenario?

Seems like you really have 3 @2.7 oz each darn tough prs of socks. Not 2. Do ya really need three prs socks? How about 1 pr Darn Tough 1/4 ankle merino heavier wt(warmer, more cushiony - could help w/ the ankles?) socks and one taller wool pr for at the start that you keep changing as you always work to have one pr reasonably dry and clean?

BTW, getting briefly back to the boots. As Blissful said it's somewhat of a misnomer that one HAS TO HAVE big heavy boots to support ankles. Sometime, it's other things that can have more of an affect on weak ankles. The tall heavy boots may actually be counterproductive to supporting ankles in some regards. I know that flies in the face of what the military probably taught you though. Will not take it further than that though because I'm clueless about your surgery.

I respectfully ask that you consider that while coming from a military background has major crossover benefits on a thru-hike doing what you did in the military IS NOT exactly the same as doing a 2200 mile thru-hike as a civilian. Recognize and understand the differences so you can make the adjustments going from the military doing things the military way to doing things more independently as an individual in civilian life. I only say that because I think our military deserves my support - that includes when they choose to thru-hike. I've witnessed some 2 dozen military who desired to complete a thru-hike abort their thru-hike attempts because they failed to fully recognize those differences and make the adjustments.

Have a great hike.

[RobinHood]

Tell me about it... I'm currently looking at a pair of Keen mids to solve the boot thing.

Wow, I did some research on Pertex Endurance and I'm really disappointed. Thanks for pointing that out. I doubt that Luke will take it back, but I'll definitely need something else. You know... I was on the fence about Luke's stuff, but this unfortunately sealed the deal.

I'll look into some glove liners, thanks.

My Tilley is super useful during the rain to keep my glasses relatively dry... For me, it's worth it to at least bring it along to see how much it's used.

You make a good point about the kilt... maybe that's best used during the summer months. I'll look into some rain pants for the shoulder seasons. As for the boxer briefs... I thought having one dedicated to camp would make the journey more comfortable.

The 3rd pair of socks is also for comfort, but changing one for a 1/4 is a great idea.

I can assure you that my military experience won't affect mike hike at all, I was in the Air Force doing computer work, haha. Never once did I go on ruck marches or anything of the like. All of my outdoors knowledge comes mostly from my civilian pursuits. My ankle problems stem mostly from being forced to run on sprained ankles continuously.

Thank you very much for the clothing shake-down. It was very helpful.

[Dogwood]

Again, not dishing Lukes Ultralight just that particular jacket might not adequately serve you as a true WP hard shell on an AT thru early on. Might not be all that big a deal in the summer when it rains in warm weather but for mid March to about early May when AT TIMES it might be COLD/cooler and wet/sleety/slushy and it wets out that could be a game changer. Don't forget there's often a hood on rain jackets. So, you have a Tilleys, beanie/baclava , AND that hood to play with for different conditions.

That's glove/mitt shells. Sounds like you have the wool liners already.

I'm thinking, the same thing about the kilt rainpants switch just like you said when you said. But, again you have to find what's right FOR YOU not me tell you what's right for you. This is all just different ways to see things. Again, this is about you calling your own shots on a thru-hike. No one's here to tell you what you must do or what's right for your thru-hike. Notice the mental shift adjustment from maybe what you are used to? It's important that not only YOU recognize but YOU also make the adjustments. To thru-hike you have to be good at self management!

Here's what you have for the waist to ankles for combinations for the start: smartwool long johns, TNF convertibles(pants/shorts combo), running shorts, smartwool boxer briefs and kilt or rainpants WITHOUT THE SECOND SW boxer briefs. Under any scenario I can imagine I can never imagine you wearing all I just listed on your bottom half at once. Which leaves at least one piece of apparel that you'll work on keeping dry and relatively clean for wearing in camp. Seems like you have the separate camp clothing covered WITHOUT the second SW boxer briefs. You'll have regular opps to go into town to keep what you have laundered. Also, snap some stainless steel or brass safety pins to the outside of your pack that you can hang clothing on to dry so you always have a decently clean and dry second set of clothes. You can do the same with socks.

Remember though. This is not the military way of doing things. You have the choice to constantly evolve and make alterations to your kit. As conditions change YOU are now personally responsible for changing up your kit if or when you see fit. What you start out with as a kit will change as your hike and you evolve. Thru-hiking like much in life is an evolutionary process. Here though, you can consciously shape how you evolve to a great extent! HYOH.

Don't sweat every detail of your hike though. You don't need to know everything(even if that was possible). You'll learn much as you proceed on your thru-hike IF you observe, learn, have a good time, and adapt as you go. The hiking community can be very helpful.

[MuddyWaters]

You need more insulation for march than just an Ex light, unless you are amenable to wrapping up in your sleeping bag.
Keep the fleece as well.

Id bring a 100 wt fleece hoody, and a jacket with ~4 oz down.

[lonehiker]

Remember though. This is not the military way of doing things. You have the choice to constantly evolve and make alterations to your kit. As conditions change YOU are now personally responsible for changing up your kit if or when you see fit. What you start out with as a kit will change as your hike and you evolve. Thru-hiking like much in life is an evolutionary process. Here though, you can consciously shape how you evolve to a great extent! HYOH.

Were you in the military? I've seen you reference the "military" way of doing things on a couple of occasions. My experience with the "military" way of doing things is quite different than what you are naively or ignorantly portraying. The military teaches that you always have to be flexible and adapt to constant changing situations. Exactly opposite what you are stating. Ask any soldier that has served in Afghanistan/Iraq (or anywhere else) how many times the situation changed and mission had to be changed accordingly. Real-time, real-word, life-affecting decisions.

I'm sure you know prior military that have been unsuccessful in attempting a thru-hike, but, I would suspect that if you looked at actual data (if it exists) you would find their success rate consistent with the general population.

[Nooga]

And what about a late Feb start date?

I heat up quite a bit when I hike, but if it were me, for a late Feb. start, I might add a Marmot Dry Clime vest or pullover. Good to hike in and would also be an option for sleeping. To me the Dry Clime is more versatile than a fleece Would definitely want a warm sleeping bag, probably a 10 deg.

[Dogwood]

Were you in the military? I've seen you reference the "military" way of doing things on a couple of occasions. My experience with the "military" way of doing things is quite different than what you are naively or ignorantly portraying. The military teaches that you always have to be flexible and adapt to constant changing situations. Exactly opposite what you are stating. Ask any soldier that has served in Afghanistan/Iraq (or anywhere else) how many times the situation changed and mission had to be changed accordingly. Real-time, real-word, life-affecting decisions.

I'm sure you know prior military that have been unsuccessful in attempting a thru-hike, but, I would suspect that if you looked at actual data (if it exists) you would find their success rate consistent with the general population.

This happens often. Just mentioning to those coming from military backgrounds that it could be beneficial to recognize the differences between being in the military doing things the "military way" compared to doing things as a civilian doing a thru-hike and people start getting offended, become defensive, or miss the context/content of the message.

I did not say, "The military (DOES NOT) teach flexibility and adaptation to constant changing situations." Read what I said in context with what I said.

Yes, I have experience working with the military but that is not a prerequisite to offering potentially useful information to thru-hikers coming from military backgrounds.

Let me ask you a question. WHY, do you think I'm saying any of this?

Assuming you are correct, it's because I don't think this should be: "I'm sure you know prior military that have been unsuccessful in attempting a thru-hike, but, I would suspect that if you looked at actual data (if it exists) you would find their success rate consistent with the general population." Thru-hikers with military backgrounds should be completing their thru-hikes at a higher completion rate than the general thru-hiker population! Don't you think so? I aim to offer some things for thru-hikers coming from military backgrounds that might raise their completion rates.

Stop, regarding my comments as if I'm badmouthing or degrading the military. It seems like it's so frackin difficult for some military personnel to grasp someone not in their direct line of command could possibly offer something beneficial.