Service Dogs with Thru-Hikers, GSMNP

[MuddyWaters]

I never said i would keep peppering with questions.

I said they were free to leave if they didnt like my questions, just as i am free to ask them.

[swjohnsey]

Didn't the regulations say tht service animals were not authorized for mental disorders?

[MuddyWaters]

Didn't the regulations say tht service animals were not authorized for mental disorders?

No. It said animals for emotional support, well being, or comfort. Were not permitted.

If you maybe have multiple personality disorder, you might still qualify.

[Alligator]

I would hope that persons with real disabilities and service animals respect that there is a need to weed out frauds. Its in everyones best interest, they shouldnt feel harassed or such if they get questioned and observed. The simple truth is, too many ****ty people out there.

I have no problem with someone that needs a service animal having it. I do have a problem with fakes pretending so they can take their pet with them.

Fortunately, as an individual i am free to ask all the questions i want. If someone doesnt like my questions they are free to leave my general vicinity.

Unfortunately, apparently the law has made it so it is very hard for businesses to differentiate without fear of retribution. That is not especially a good thing.

I never said i would keep peppering with questions.

I said they were free to leave if they didnt like my questions, just as i am free to ask them.

They will feel harassed if they get overly questioned. We've established that a business owner or ranger can only ask two questions. A legitimate service dog owner will know this. While some may be ok with your questions, others won't, vehemently so even. You said you were free to ask them all the questions you want. It doesn't sound at all like you would be satisfied with just asking those two in your quest to figure out whether they are a fake or not. Because you have a problem with fakes. As a matter of fact, they don't have to answer the two questions if you ask them either. As you stated, you aren't providing the service. If they tell you to mind your business, are you going to just shut up or what?

[MuddyWaters]

Post edited. User elected to shut up.

[rickb]

Not sure, but I think Muddy is saying we have legal right to act like an ass just so long as we are not in a position to force the person with a service animal to obey our dictates.

Interestingly, I would imagine that while a person in that position of authority (like a business owner or his agent) is prohibited from asking a person with service animal many questions-- the law has no issue about giving a person who has a common pet the third degree.

Since a business owner could guess wrong, Mags advice make a great deal of sence on that score.

[Starchild]

It is not illegal to make conversation, it is not illegal for a person to disclose their disability. So asking as a person and not a authority is what is called conversation.

One tack with potentially fake service dogs is ask to pet them, then ask if they are sure it's safe, then if and after after they say yes then do a duh moment and mention what a stupid question as a service dog must have gone thru extensive training to be around people. Watch for squirming, even flushed face.

If they say no, well that's another thing, which just may indicate that they prefer not to be bothered.

[squeezebox]

One problem is non-service dogs are often non-trained. We don't have to put up with this stuff. Protect your self and your gear from untrained dogs even if it means hurting the dog. I have that right. If you don't like it train your dog.

[kayak karl]

One problem is non-service dogs are often non-trained. We don't have to put up with this stuff. Protect your self and your gear from untrained dogs even if it means hurting the dog. I have that right. If you don't like it train your dog.

really poor attitude. do you go around hurting pets often?

[Tuckahoe]

I should stop being amazed at the amount of tier 1 internet badassery on WB

[Connie]

I haven't read all this.

Didn't all this "concern" start when a Baxter State Park letter reported people claiming to be AT thru-hikers bragged they had obtained false paperwork they had "service dogs"?

I know that service dogs, service "pets" are actually trained and credentialled and removed from the home or possession of disqualified persons. I even know of a trained dog for the blind removed.

I am handicapped.

I receive a disability check from the Social Security Administration, since 1975, about a car wreck.

I had to relearn to walk. I had to relearn to speak. I had special ed for reading, writing, and simple arithmetic.

I will say this: I hope they jail offenders. I hope if they have not got a law, they will pass a law to jail offenders.

These cheats are an offense to authentic handicapped.

That's how I feel about it.

[Traveler]

really poor attitude. do you go around hurting pets often?

Food and water can be serious issues, never mind an animal that braces you as you are walking on a trail. However, they usually don't know any better and their owner has not taken the time or interest in training them. Hurting pets is not the issue, dissuading them of the notion you are going to allow them liberties with your water, food, or person doesn't require hurting the animal in most instances. A shout, a shove, put a pole out in front of you, a quick bop on the snout, are all fairly gentle means of non verbal communication the animal needs to stop doing what it is doing. Now, owners who allow their animals to do these things is another story....

[Don H]

Saw a Pit Bull at Ed Garvey shelter eating stink bugs last October, I considered him a true "service dog".

[BryanS]

Being new to this forum I'm really suprised to see how many people seem to hate disabled people and want to deny them access to the trail. When you get out of your angry mood and realize that a service dog is essentially the same as a wheelchair, being something that a disabled person requires to function, it's not that they are making a choice to bring a dog on the trail or into a shelter; It's that they can't experience the trail.

For those of you whining about service dogs, I hope you have a sibling with epilepsy so you can tell them, "sorry bro, but you can't come along on the trail because you need a service dog." I hope you find a shelter where you can sleep next to a combat vet with bad nightmares and a serious case of PTSD who is nice enough to tie up his service dog outside.... that's a dude I'd want to sleep next to after kicking out his support system.

[swjohnsey]

Have you ever wondered how less than 10% of veterans saw combat yet 30% suffer from PTSD?

Retired Army

[TNhiker]

Being new to this forum I'm really suprised to see how many people seem to hate disabled people and want to deny them access to the trail.

while there are a few people who are like this, by the basis of this thread----they are the minority.......

i think the majority of us dont want to see the fraudulent service dogs...........

ya know-----the person who claims they need the dog for a reason, while the real reason is they just want to bring their dog along......

[imscotty]

Being new to this forum I'm really suprised to see how many people seem to hate disabled people and want to deny them access to the trail. When you get out of your angry mood and realize that a service dog is essentially the same as a wheelchair, being something that a disabled person requires to function, it's not that they are making a choice to bring a dog on the trail or into a shelter; It's that they can't experience the trail.

For those of you whining about service dogs, I hope you have a sibling with epilepsy so you can tell them, "sorry bro, but you can't come along on the trail because you need a service dog." I hope you find a shelter where you can sleep next to a combat vet with bad nightmares and a serious case of PTSD who is nice enough to tie up his service dog outside.... that's a dude I'd want to sleep next to after kicking out his support system.

BryanS, I think you misunderstood some of the concerns voiced in this thread. I did not see any criticisms of the disabled using service animals in the GSMNP. The concern is with people claiming fake disabilities so that they can have a 'fake service dog' as a way to get around the parks restrictions against people bring their pets.

If I had a sibling with the need of a legitimate service animal, I certainly would be angry with people who scam the system and potentially give legitimate service animals and their owners a bad name. I think that if I were in that situation I would try to lobby for some sort of official credential system certifying animal and owner are legitimate. Much the same as the requirement that you obtain handicapped plates or a place card to use a handicapped parking space.

[Mags]

Have you ever wondered how less than 10% of veterans saw combat yet 30% suffer from PTSD?

Retired Army

My brother is a veteran of the Iraq war. He served at the Belad hospital as a medic.

While he did not see combat, the 18 hr days of treating both severely wounded soldiers and Iraqi civilians did take a toll on him by the time returned. He did suffer from PTSD for a bit and had a hard time adjusting at first.

You don't have to see combat to suffer from PTSD.

EDIT: I am proud of my little brother..esp after I heard this story several years ago
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=15605343

[trickytrip]

Hey all, I'm a newbie here and I am going to get my feet wet on this thread since I hike with my service dog. First let me say, my dog is not one of those service dogs that approaches people wagging her tail and jumping at them for attention. If my dog (Silky) is working she will not even make eye contact with another person, other dogs she will want to say "hi" to. Silky provides a service for balance and PTSD (I have never been in the military). When we hike, she will stay right beside me through hard to navigate areas and she will go a bit ahead on steep upgrades (to help pull me up). I get frustrated very easily and Silky gets me calmed down, not to mention, she is the reason I am mobile at all. I would be content to just sit around but she makes me go places. I won't go into why I need her, maybe if someone asks. One thing that really ticks me off are the "service dogs" that come up to you yapping and jumping for attention, or that runs around getting tangled around your feet or jumps in the face of my dog. Silky will never get into any bodies packs or personal space for that matter, unless I tell her it is "ok to say hello". Now, I release her from work on occasion by allowing her to be a regular dog but I still keep her close and on a long rope. I also am very responsible about her doo doo as I am my own and become very sad when I see evidence of irresponsible dog hikers. So, hope I haven't ruffled any feathers and I will be happy to try to answer any questions you have.

[TNhiker]

One thing that really ticks me off are the "service dogs" that come up to you yapping and jumping for attention, or that runs around getting tangled around your feet or jumps in the face of my dog

if this is their behavior-----then they really arent a service dog...............or at least a credible service dog...............