Carrying a rain jacket and a wind shell?

[Greenlight]

At this point, I only carry my Frogg Toggs suit to do both. I wear the top as my outer layer on a lot of hikes. There are a lot of nicer, more technical pieces of clothing out there, but FTs have worked for me up until now.

Is anyone bringing both a rain jacket and a wind shell? I have an OR Helium that I've had for a few years and hardly used, but recently got a gift certificate to REI and impulse bought a patagucchi Houdini.


Thoughts?

[MuddyWaters]

Sometimes do
Sometimes dont
I dont dont find it a necessity
It is light, more comfortable outer layer than rain jacket
Convenient, size of tennis ball, stuffs in pocket easy
Adds a few degreers over puffy or baselayer
I wear it more in dry climates
I tend to bring it if i dont bring fleece, for a little extra morning warmth in cool, not cold conditions
With fleece, it usually dont make the cut due to the excruciating 1.9 extra oz. Who can take that?

Kind of a niche item that depends on lots of factors

Never once have I thought " man, wish I had my windshirt"
Never

On AT , donning rain jacket, even with pitzips, pretty much means I will be damp soon unless its really dry cool windy. Theres times windshirt might work better, but thats a very marginal improvement, not a life altering difference.

Do you need a rain jacket...yes
Do you need a wind jacket..no

If you want to carry both..its up to you.

When you have too many layering options, some dont get used. You default to whats simple for you. I find if I bring fleece hoody, its what I use. I live in it, day and night. Which relegates windshirt to cool, but not cold, hiking conditions.

[Shrewd]

I think I'll bring it. I'm not a gram weenie, though I am hoping to stay somewhat light. It's only four ounces. If it doesn't prove its usefulness I'll send it home with what I figure will be a pile of other stuff I though I'd like to have

[HooKooDooKu]

Seems to me that any jacket (or pants) that is water-proof will also be wind-proof. Therefore, if you have a water-proof layer, you don't need a separate wind-shell.

However, you typically need more layers than just a water-proof layer. So there's nothing wrong with carrying a wind-shell layer as well if it's fulfilling the role of an additional needed layer.

[Cheyou]

I bring both , rain jackets don't breath well or at all in some cases. I will suffer the 3oz weight penalty to have a jacket that isn't clammy.

[gbolt]

I also bring both. The rain jacket holds off the rain longer and allows me to keep hiking in colder temperatures 32º and lower. The Wind Jacket is lighter, wets out quicker and does better in the 35 and above temps. The hood is better/stiffer/more functional on the rain jacket and a lot more flimsy/less secure around the face on the Wind Jacket. I also agree the weight penalty is small and worth the added versatility. Mine weights 4.6 and cost $29 but is not the Houdini.

[PaulWorksHard]

My base pack weight means a "ton" to me, but a windshirt is not "duplicative" enough to leave it behind in 3 season backpacking, especially carrying a sub 7 oz rainshell.
The windshirt does too many things the rainshell cannot.

Care to list them?

[Dogwood]

One of the biggest complaints about rain jackets are users experiencing getting wet from the inside. That can be addressed from several angles with IMHO taking a cumulative approach being the best. One facet of this is when rain is very light or of very short duration or not raining but windy and brisk and the idea is not get wet from the inside during high output activities and periods but still protect from convective heat loss the wind jacket/wind shirt is much more breathable than rain jackets. The highest MVTR of true WP rain jackets is something around g/m2/24 hrs of 40,000. That's the best in the fabric department. Most are much less in the 10,ooo-20,000 range. Wind breakers/jackets have the potential to be of greater breathability. Hence why it might be an acceptable approach taking along at a minimal wt penalty if opting for some of the most UL wind shirts/jackets in backpacking/hiking/running/peak bagging/possibly snowshoeing/etc situations.

[Hosh]

Agree, I look at a wind shirt as part of a layer system. They are so light, so small that even a gram counter can hardly notice. I do think they are probably more beneficial in western climates. Intermittent sun/shade is easier than with a rain jacket.

[Feral Bill]

Both: Marmot windshirt and Packa. The functions are very different.

[trailmercury]

Care to list them?

1.breathes waaaaaaaaay better
2. packs smaller (somewhat of a wash, because I carry both anyway)
3. longevity, rainshell linings wear out, especially if used in situations where windshirt would suffice... not sure if this is actual use or just deterioration but the waterproof lining on the Marmot Precip that I used when I bought my windshirt (circa 2002ish) peeled eventually making it useless
4. I can carry the windshirt in my Zpacks shoulder strap pocket with room to spare, shell won't fit there
5. in very light rain its a better outer while on the move, even in cool temps, these thing dry out so quickly even when "wetted out"
6. Can almost pass as "casual" attire while indoors in town and not make one feel hot and clammy or look goofy...

Maybe instead of posting that it "does too many things a rainshell cannot", I should have posted "YMMV"
HYOH

[FreeGoldRush]

1.breathes waaaaaaaaay better
2. packs smaller (somewhat of a wash, because I carry both anyway)
3. longevity, rainshell linings wear out, especially if used in situations where windshirt would suffice... not sure if this is actual use or just deterioration but the waterproof lining on the Marmot Precip that I used when I bought my windshirt (circa 2002ish) peeled eventually making it useless
4. I can carry the windshirt in my Zpacks shoulder strap pocket with room to spare, shell won't fit there
5. in very light rain its a better outer while on the move, even in cool temps, these thing dry out so quickly even when "wetted out"
6. Can almost pass as "casual" attire while indoors in town and not make one feel hot and clammy or look goofy...

Maybe instead of posting that it "does too many things a rainshell cannot", I should have posted "YMMV"
HYOH

Several people have commented that a wind shell breaths better than a rain jacket. I have the ZPacks rain jacket, which they claim breaths better than... anything. Why does the wind shell do a better job at not trapping moisture?

[trailmercury]

This goes way back in debate on multiple "minimalist" backpacking forums for many years...litebackpacker.com (when it was still relevant/useful), here (to a lesser degree), Backpackinglight.com, hopefully in scientific journals, etc, etc, ......If somebody did a PhD on this, someone please share... that would be useful...the waterproof membrane of a proclaimed rainshell has less breathability...In my practice... YMMV
I believe equal ability to "breathe" from a true rainshell vs. a windshirt has yet to be accomplished from a garment without a relative comfort/weight/versaltility penalty...I wish to be enlightened so to speak, but until then, my Montane Featherite windshirt (2.8-3.0 oz. depending on size) goes with me all the time, along with a rainshell...
This has been debated, but the cows have not come home...
Yay Pertex Quantum! (not a new thing)
YMMV

[MuddyWaters]

1.breathes waaaaaaaaay better
2. packs smaller (somewhat of a wash, because I carry both anyway)
3. longevity, rainshell linings wear out, especially if used in situations where windshirt would suffice... not sure if this is actual use or just deterioration but the waterproof lining on the Marmot Precip that I used when I bought my windshirt (circa 2002ish) peeled eventually making it useless
4. I can carry the windshirt in my Zpacks shoulder strap pocket with room to spare, shell won't fit there
5. in very light rain its a better outer while on the move, even in cool temps, these thing dry out so quickly even when "wetted out"
6. Can almost pass as "casual" attire while indoors in town and not make one feel hot and clammy or look goofy...

Maybe instead of posting that it "does too many things a rainshell cannot", I should have posted "YMMV"
HYOH

If not needed, does it matter how light it is, how small it packs, what it looks like, etc.?

Dwr finish fails on windshirts too. Just like rain jackets. They both depend on dwr surface finish for water repellency. And cant breathe if wet out.

It is something possibly more comfortable in limited circumstances. Thats all.

I find when rain is light enough to wear windshirt for extended time, its light enough to wear nothing most of time. . Mine wets out and gets clingy fairly quick as well. 10-15 min at most if its really raining hard enough to want something. This is probably because it cant breathe in rain due ro high humidity. Im damp regardless, doesnt matter what Im wearing or not wearing.

Still not breatheable enough in humid conditions, ie rain, (impossible for anything to be at 100% humidity), inside still gets wet and clings if your warm and working hard.

A potential problem is more you wear it, it gets dirty, dwr is less effective. This should be issue if wear often. Daily, etc.

It works well in some circumstances. Been exxaggerated somewhat though as they became "the rage" over last 7-10 yrs or so IMO. Id think no ones ever not made it to maine because didnt have windhirt.

Now coupled with umbrella....we have a winner . Some do without rain jacket. Great if your an umbrella afficionado.

[daddytwosticks]

Different tools for different jobs. If I'm out on a day hike on a blustery spring day, I'd bring my wind jacket and pack a cheap 99 cent disposable rain poncho just in case. Don't assume everybody here engages in epic thru-hikes and must pack accordingly.

[Cheyou]

Different tools for different jobs. If I'm out on a day hike on a blustery spring day, I'd bring my wind jacket and pack a cheap 99 cent disposable rain poncho just in case. Don't assume everybody here engages in epic thru-hikes and must pack accordingly.

this in the through hicker specific topics category!

thom

[daddytwosticks]

this in the through hicker specific topics category!

thom

You are correct. My mistake. I'm sorry.

[Bigryn0]

Marmot Precip jacket and pants serve both purposes for me.

Second the precip jacket. I use it on as a rain shell over my Patagonia synchilla fleece. S little heavy but I love the feel of the fleece.
The precip is a great light weight wind breaker that's wp.


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[PaulWorksHard]

The fact is, during the part of my thru hike, from June through end of August, I wore my rain jacket only once, in the whites. The thought occurred to me to send it home, but I kept it for that one cold, windy, rainy day where even though it was about 50 degrees, I could have suffered from hypothermia without it.

In those warmer months, you just get wet while hiking and feel nice and cool. When the rain stops, I was dry within 1 hour. It seemed to me a lot of thru hikers did the same. If it is warm and you are exothermic, no need to wear the rain jacket. (But I would always carry it)

[trailmercury]

If not needed, does it matter how light it is, how small it packs, what it looks like, etc.?

Dwr finish fails on windshirts too. Just like rain jackets. They both depend on dwr surface finish for water repellency. And cant breathe if wet out.

It is something possibly more comfortable in limited circumstances. Thats all.



I find when rain is light enough to wear windshirt for extended time, its light enough to wear nothing most of time. . Mine wets out and gets clingy fairly quick as well. 10-15 min at most if its really raining hard enough to want something. This is probably because it cant breathe in rain due ro high humidity. Im damp regardless, doesnt matter what Im wearing or not wearing.

Still not breatheable enough in humid conditions, ie rain, (impossible for anything to be at 100% humidity), inside still gets wet and clings if your warm and working hard.

A potential problem is more you wear it, it gets dirty, dwr is less effective. This should be issue if wear often. Daily, etc.

It works well in some circumstances. Been exxaggerated somewhat though as they became "the rage" over last 7-10 yrs or so IMO. Id think no ones ever not made it to maine because didnt have windhirt.

Now coupled with umbrella....we have a winner . Some do without rain jacket. Great if your an umbrella afficionado.

well stated, cant wholeheartedly disagree here
he asked me to list so I gave it my best shot
I never will advocate it as an absolutely necessity