What Stove?

[Traillium]

like someone said earlier, you often don't need to bring your water up to boiling temps. Ya can't really drink a hot beverage at 212 degrees F so why heat the water all the way to boiling. I suppose some freezer bag meals require boiling water or close to it but if you can get away with getting the water somewhere between warm and hot, you can save significantly on fuel, be it canister, alcohol, white gas or wood.

+1 for sure!

[Cheyou]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/...104621/#884545

thom

[Traillium]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/...104621/#884545

Impressive simplicity!

[MtDoraDave]

like someone said earlier, you often don't need to bring your water up to boiling temps. Ya can't really drink a hot beverage at 212 degrees F so why heat the water all the way to boiling. I suppose some freezer bag meals require boiling water or close to it but if you can get away with getting the water somewhere between warm and hot, you can save significantly on fuel, be it canister, alcohol, white gas or wood.

Years ago, while car camping, I attempted this (due to impatience). I saw the water was steaming, and decided it was hot enough for instant whatever I was about to eat or drink. Turns out that water "steams" at pretty low temperatures when it's cold out. (I know it's not steam, but vapor or something, so lets don't turn this into an engineering thread) The water was barely lukewarm, and I had to start over.

So yes, assuming the water is filtered or treated, it doesn't have to come to a complete boil for most of our cooking needs, but when the water starts out in the mid 30 degree range, and the ambient temperature is in the mid 30 degree range, determining how long it takes to almost boil water will be trial and error.
With alcohol, use 1/2 oz or whatever. With a canister, use a stopwatch or timer?

This practice may be fun or a challenge to be fuel-frugal... but it sort of reminds me of turning off the water heater during the day to save electricity. I'd rather just carry enough fuel to do the job than try to be miserly about it. Different strokes for different folks; hyoh.

[QuietStorm]

Have and use both an Esbit and Pocket Rocket. Esbit needs a wind screen most of the time but usually easy to light and very light to carry and fit in my food bag.


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[Secondmouse]

I wouldn't sweat it too much. You will figure out how much fuel you are using after a canister is gone. You always have the option of using a wood fire if you run out of fuel so it won't be. Too Lang before you can get fuel again.


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or could run some tests to find out how much fuel his stove uses. 10gr of fuel is a safe estimate that gives a little leeway for outside circumstances. that's 10-11, 16oz boils/small canister.

my stove is a little more efficient than that (7-8gr/boil) and as said, I don't always need to bring the water to a boil, but there is wind and I usually want more than 16oz to eat and drink.

I feel confident a 110gr canister will last me 4-5 days and I keep a couple of the 14gr Esbit tabs in my cook bag just in case...

[Secondmouse]

Years ago, while car camping, I attempted this (due to impatience). I saw the water was steaming, and decided it was hot enough for instant whatever I was about to eat or drink. Turns out that water "steams" at pretty low temperatures when it's cold out. (I know it's not steam, but vapor or something, so lets don't turn this into an engineering thread) The water was barely lukewarm, and I had to start over.

So yes, assuming the water is filtered or treated, it doesn't have to come to a complete boil for most of our cooking needs, but when the water starts out in the mid 30 degree range, and the ambient temperature is in the mid 30 degree range, determining how long it takes to almost boil water will be trial and error.
With alcohol, use 1/2 oz or whatever. With a canister, use a stopwatch or timer?

This practice may be fun or a challenge to be fuel-frugal... but it sort of reminds me of turning off the water heater during the day to save electricity. I'd rather just carry enough fuel to do the job than try to be miserly about it. Different strokes for different folks; hyoh.

here's an easy way to extimate water temp - check to see if it's shrimp eyes (155-165), crab eyes (165-175), fish eyes (175-185), string or pearls (185-200), or DRAGON EYES! (200-212, full rolling boil)

http://teamasters.org/five-stages-of...ter-to-a-boil/

[rocketsocks]

here's an easy way to extimate water temp - check to see if it's shrimp eyes (155-165), crab eyes (165-175), fish eyes (175-185), string or pearls (185-200), or DRAGON EYES! (200-212, full rolling boil)

http://teamasters.org/five-stages-of...ter-to-a-boil/

I like that!

[fastfoxengineering]

Honestly, I think more and more people are going to no cook methods because of stove/fuel logistics. It can be kinda of annoying running out of fuel. However, even foods that require hot water can usually be soaked or eating dry. I prefer alcohol over canister. But I keep moving more and more towards no cook meals for LD hiking. However, every so often... I really enjoy a hot drink in the trail. Those ultralight cook kits, around three ounces with a titanium pot are sounding more and more my style. A roughly 450ml mug and esbit or alcohol stove and a jar to soak stuff in sounds perfect for me for a thru hike. I could even just carry a 2oz titanium mug. And use a fire to heat up some water. However an ounce for an esbit setup sounds more convenient

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[Secondmouse]

Honestly, I think more and more people are going to no cook methods because of stove/fuel logistics. It can be kinda of annoying running out of fuel. However, even foods that require hot water can usually be soaked or eating dry. I prefer alcohol over canister. But I keep moving more and more towards no cook meals for LD hiking. However, every so often... I really enjoy a hot drink in the trail. Those ultralight cook kits, around three ounces with a titanium pot are sounding more and more my style. A roughly 450ml mug and esbit or alcohol stove and a jar to soak stuff in sounds perfect for me for a thru hike. I could even just carry a 2oz titanium mug. And use a fire to heat up some water. However an ounce for an esbit setup sounds more convenient

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my Toaks 900ml pot and Fancee Feast stove together only weigh 4.5oz.

1/2 ounce for a cut down LMF Ti spoon, 1oz for the 8fl oz fuel bottle plus whatever weight of alcohol you tote. not all that much...

[ScareBear]

Honestly, I think more and more people are going to no cook methods because of stove/fuel logistics. It can be kinda of annoying running out of fuel. However, even foods that require hot water can usually be soaked or eating dry. I prefer alcohol over canister. But I keep moving more and more towards no cook meals for LD hiking. However, every so often... I really enjoy a hot drink in the trail. Those ultralight cook kits, around three ounces with a titanium pot are sounding more and more my style. A roughly 450ml mug and esbit or alcohol stove and a jar to soak stuff in sounds perfect for me for a thru hike. I could even just carry a 2oz titanium mug. And use a fire to heat up some water. However an ounce for an esbit setup sounds more convenient

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Two words...

Crotch

Pot

http://gossamergear.com/wp/stoveless-camping-crotch-pot

[Secondmouse]

Two words...

Crotch

Pot

http://gossamergear.com/wp/stoveless-camping-crotch-pot

now there's a real appetizing thought!

and it's so tempting to change out the P for an R that discussions on this become more and more entertaining...

[country99]

my svea stove, bought in 1975, 42 years ago, works as good now as it did the day it was new. back then, that was the stove to have for backpacking. i think thats what I'm taking this year on my thru. a little heavy by todays standards, but it was fine back then. plus, if the wood is wet, just use a little fuel to get the fire started....

[Venchka]

my svea stove, bought in 1975, 42 years ago, works as good now as it did the day it was new. back then, that was the stove to have for backpacking. i think thats what I'm taking this year on my thru. a little heavy by todays standards, but it was fine back then. plus, if the wood is wet, just use a little fuel to get the fire started....

Mine is about that age, give or take a year. Ordered it from the REI catalog. According to internet information, the stove will boil water twice a day with 1 1/2 ounces of fuel.
Definitely a case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Wayne


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[bamboo bob]

Since one actually cooks so few calories I go stoveless. In the summer especially I find it's easy, lighter, no muss no fuss.

[Greenmountainguy]

I did 600 miles on the AT a few years back and exclusively used a wood stove with no backup. I can only recall once or twice eating a cold dinner basically attributed to my own laziness of not wanting to deal with wet wood. My stove weighed in at 5 ounces and I never carried fuel. I personally found the routine of gathering wood to be relaxing and in reality only took a couple of minutes. My stove of choice at the time was the Bushbuddy. I liked the idea that I would never have to worry about finding fuel or running out of it. As an added bonus I always enjoyed having a mini campfire right next to my hammock after a good meal. Soot was never a problem as the fire is contained inside the BB ... It nested perfectly in my pot... Wood burning's not for everyone.... I could boil my water in about 5-6 minutes after the fire was started. I could gather the wood and light the fire in about ten minutes. My second choice would be a Pocket Rocket or something similar.

Well, this is exactly what I have been wondering about. I really like the idea behind wood stoves. My battery powered ZZip/Sierra is not terribly light however and I do not currently use a commercial version of a Bush Buddy (that may change soon after I find work). I have played with my own versions of a smoke recycling stove such as the BB, but every model I have made (admittedly I have only used stainless) has been so heavy as to negate the weight savings. Yet...not having to ever worry or wonder about fuel is so terribly seductive. Many models of wood burner now have what I thought I had invented...an insert that burns alcohol. Since you pretty much need some kind of priming fluid/gel, that would seem to solve the problem. Carry a smallish bottle of alcohol and you are good if you are in a hurry or there is nothing but wet wood (I have seen rain everyday for a week just in the past year...that could put a crimp on everything). Liquid alcohol could serve as both primer and fuel.
For two to four day jaunts, the question is harder. The cartridge stoves have a good weight/cook ratio, although I am not sanguine about the heavy canisters. I guess the final judgment is simple: I will look at my menu and before making a judgment on a stove, simply weigh my pack without stove and judge accordingly.

[MtDoraDave]

Well, this is exactly what I have been wondering about. I really like the idea behind wood stoves. My battery powered ZZip/Sierra is not terribly light however and I do not currently use a commercial version of a Bush Buddy (that may change soon after I find work). I have played with my own versions of a smoke recycling stove such as the BB, but every model I have made (admittedly I have only used stainless) has been so heavy as to negate the weight savings. Yet...not having to ever worry or wonder about fuel is so terribly seductive. Many models of wood burner now have what I thought I had invented...an insert that burns alcohol. Since you pretty much need some kind of priming fluid/gel, that would seem to solve the problem. Carry a smallish bottle of alcohol and you are good if you are in a hurry or there is nothing but wet wood (I have seen rain everyday for a week just in the past year...that could put a crimp on everything). Liquid alcohol could serve as both primer and fuel.
For two to four day jaunts, the question is harder. The cartridge stoves have a good weight/cook ratio, although I am not sanguine about the heavy canisters. I guess the final judgment is simple: I will look at my menu and before making a judgment on a stove, simply weigh my pack without stove and judge accordingly.

Based on weight alone?



If you like the bush buddy/ solo stove, have you seen the link somewhere around here for the http://www.nomadicstovecompany.com/ ?

To me, it appears to be a solo stove with less weight. For the lighter models, it looks too delicate for me, but the heaviest one is still only 6.4 ounces. Lighter than the competition.

[Greenmountainguy]

Based on weight alone?

If you like the bush buddy/ solo stove, have you seen the link somewhere around here for the http://www.nomadicstovecompany.com/ ?

To me, it appears to be a solo stove with less weight. For the lighter models, it looks too delicate for me, but the heaviest one is still only 6.4 ounces. Lighter than the competition.

Well, I made a really tough model of a wood burner using a stainless steel Thermos bottle for material, but no matter how cunning I was in engineering, it is still too heavy. There are Chinese imports that sell on eBay and Amazon that are on the smallish side, but look good. They may be fragile.
Weight alone? Hmm... Well I suppose the menu I have already chosen will be a big factor too. I like the convenience of a canister but cringe at the weight of the cans. Still they are lighter than gasoline for jaunts up to maybe 3 or 4 nights, which is the most that I do. Still, the lack of need for fuel in a wood/alcohol stove is seductive. I guess I pick by the jaunt.

[Greenmountainguy]

Since one actually cooks so few calories I go stoveless. In the summer especially I find it's easy, lighter, no muss no fuss.

And no coffee, no tea, no hot chocolate no hot soup at a day's end.

[Greenmountainguy]

my svea stove, bought in 1975, 42 years ago, works as good now as it did the day it was new. back then, that was the stove to have for backpacking. i think thats what I'm taking this year on my thru. a little heavy by todays standards, but it was fine back then. plus, if the wood is wet, just use a little fuel to get the fire started....

I own in my collection the GI version of a Svea 123, I think it is called something like GS ! and has the advantage of burning automotive fuel if necessary. It is, however a bit heavier.