What Stove?

[Siestita]

"I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero, the less efficient fuel pretty much means at least four ounces per day if you do a hot beverage and hot cereal for breakfast and a one-pot meal with beverage for dinner. That means 28 oz. a week unless you want to do less cooking." greenmountainguy


As an alcohol stove user I find your estimate of 4 fluid oz. of fuel alcohol per day, to support personal cooking style, very credible.

I use a very primitive alcohol stove set up, just an empty cat food can with no wick, no punched holes, and no other enhancements, a wire pot support, and a light windscreen. I prepare two hot beverages and one hot meal (typically Knorrs/formerly Liptons) per day. I use slightly less than 3 fluid ounces of alcohol to accomplish that each day. If I additionally cooked a breakfast of old fashioned (not instant) oatmeal per day, as you greenmountainguy apparently do, that would probably raise my daily fuel usage to about 4 fluid ounces.

But, you may be overstating the alcohol weight needed for your seven days and nights of back country cooking. Don't confuse alcohol's volume (fluid ounces) with its weight. One fluid ounce of water conveniently also weighs one ounce. But, fuel alcohol is 20% lighter than water. So, each fluid ounce of alcohol only weighs .8 ounce. Instead of needing to carry 28 ounces of fuel (by weight) for your hypothetical 7 breakfasts and 7 dinners, you would actually only be hauling 22 1/2 ounces.

Also, I limit my trips to no more than 6 nights/7 hiking days between resupplies. Some other posters may act similarly. Canister stoves are neat toys and convenient to use--I've owned three of them. But, I suspect that many three season hikers (unless perhaps also cooking for a partner or group), could save weight by switching from butane to alcohol.

[Starchild]

"I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero,...

Try a tea light candle holder, the foil ones. 4 of them still weight nothing on my scale that measures in grams. Can also be used with a jetboil pot as a backup directly (just place it over the tealight stove once ignited, the pot will be elevated enough due to the heat exchanger of the Jetboil),if the canisters can't be found. However they are somewhat delicate and may be broken by the time you need them, but if you have a way to protect them it is a stove that weighs nothing - even four of them.


Esbit is another stove that weighs nothing, some people use rocks as the pot stand, others tent stakes.

[Starchild]

...

maybe a silly question, are the canisters recyclable everywhere?...

If they are empty and punctured they can be recycled with metals, there is a tool made for that, or a can opener or a rock will work to puncture them.

Just thinking along the lines of carbon footprint and LNT...
burnt up ashes spead around inconspicuously are probably good for the soil micro-ecosystem, correct?
I have to admit, there is a "cool" factor in rocking the Tri-Ti and that hum of canisters is a deterrant for me...
HYOH

Generally good, LNT would suggest carrying a stove and fuel over gathering wood for fires, but not a biggie.


And use the stove that suits you, I get a comforting reassurance with that hum - I know it's working, and like the no fiddle factor, as after a long day hiking I don't want to wait. But I can understand the quiet methods too and there is some level of attractiveness to that also. HYOH and all

[garlic08]

I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero, the less efficient fuel pretty much means at least four ounces per day if you do a hot beverage and hot cereal for breakfast and a one-pot meal with beverage for dinner. That means 28 oz. a week unless you want to do less cooking....

Yes, it's well known that alcohol stove users have to do much less cooking than that to make it work. If you use more than an ounce per day, alcohol is probably not your fuel.

When my wife and I hiked the PCT together, when we carried an alky stove (eventually went stoveless on that trip and stayed that way), we used about one ounce per day for two of us. We never carried more than a six ounces of fuel weight. That was for one one-pot dinner per day. We used a pot cozy to conserve heat and finish cooking. We never actually boiled water, due the delta H required to do that (chem class was good for something!). (And it was because of that minimal stove use that we realized we didn't really need a stove at all, and then everything got easier for us.)

[QiWiz]

My own choice would be a wood burning stove with either an Esbit or alcohol backup option. Esbit is harder to find off trail, so alcohol might be the best backup fuel for your needs. This assumes that the area you are hiking in allows a contained twig fire. There are areas in the west that prohibit this. Would be fine on AT.

There are a variety of wood burning options out there. If twigs are damp and a fire harder to start and maintain, a stove with excellent chimney ventilation works best IMO. Shameless promo: This is why the FireFly stove is designed to have a huge chimney effect when bottom lit. Dry twigs can be top lit, reducing smokiness, but this is much more difficult to do with wet/damp fuel without a lot of fuel prep.

[Venchka]

Unfortunately no, as much as I loved that old stove, it got temperamental and nearly incinerated itself along with the old dry picnic table it was sitting on in the smokies back in the late 90's.

I'm afraid mine might do the same which is why I asked. Thanks.
Svea 123 & Primus Multi-Fuel at the ready.
Wayne

[Greenlight]

I'm sticking with my JetBoil. I'm not a gram weenie but I only take what I need. I need my JetBoil. If I was to go a different route it would be toward UL with a homemade alcohol stove, appropriate pot, and a Caldera cone. If JetBoil comes out with a titanium setup, I might eventually bite, but I'm happy with the one I have.

[jeffmeh]

Unfortunately no, as much as I loved that old stove, it got temperamental and nearly incinerated itself along with the old dry picnic table it was sitting on in the smokies back in the late 90's.

I retired a Coleman Peak 1 for much the same reason. I believe I still have an old Optimus 8R that I haven't fired up in years. The MSR Whisperlite is superior in all respects, IMO. Still a great stove for a group, or for deep winter, when I care much less about weight anyway.

[peakbagger]

Pocket Rocket with heat shield. I would get 14 days heating water in the AM and then supper which was usually a Lipton meal (bring to boil, then simmer a few minutes and then wrap the pot up and let it sit). If you don't have a heat shield and like to sit out in breeze to cook cut that canister life in half.

[Gambit McCrae]

The fancee feast has not let me down yet

[Starchild]

I'm sticking with my JetBoil. I'm not a gram weenie but I only take what I need. I need my JetBoil. If I was to go a different route it would be toward UL with a homemade alcohol stove, appropriate pot, and a Caldera cone. If JetBoil comes out with a titanium setup, I might eventually bite, but I'm happy with the one I have.

Jetboil did have Ti setup, weight is 9.4 oz (basic setup, no stand), and with a fuel canister comes in at under 1lb (about 12.5 oz with a empty fuel canister). It had a problem as the heat exchanger (called a flux ring) was still made of Aluminum, the dissimilar metals were welded together but the stress of heating them caused the weld to eventually fail.

At first Jetboil had a notation on the sleeve that you could boil/heat water on high, or cook on low or melt snow on low flame. It was later revised to be for heating and boiling water only and on high flame. I had both types, the second one also added a bit more weight due to a heavier sleeve.

The reputation I heard is that Jetboil would not stand behind their Ti product and if the flux ring separated you were SOL and they would claim you ran the stove without anything in the pot. Many reports of normal usage and jetboil claiming it was used improperly and denying the warranty claim circulated on the internet including here.

I still have my Jetboil Ti which I used on my AT thru, I believe you can still get the Ti stove or pot if you look for them, but they will be through non-official channels such as ebay. It's a great pot, but not sure I would go for it again due to that issue which always is in the back of my mind.

Jetboil's venture into Ti pots, and light weight, seemed to take a turn away from that, the Mini-mo signaled Jetboils return to convenience and where they feel content to stay.

[CarlZ993]

All stove systems can work for you - white gas, canister (upright or remote-style), integrated stove systems (i.e. MSR Reactors, JetBoil, etc), alcohol, solid fuel, etc. Some are faster than others. Some are more fuel efficient. Some are lighter. But none are 'All of the above.'

On my AT hike in 2013, I saw mainly upright canister stoves (PocketRocket-style) and alcohol stoves. I used Zelph's Fancee Feast stove & was pleased with it for the most part. Much slower than canister or integrated stove systems.

If I were to do it again, I'd use an upright canister stove that had a fuel regulator (fuel flow was constant to the stove with dropping fuel pressure in the canister). I'd take my Soto Windmaster stove. It fits that mold and is the most wind resistant upright canister stove I've seen.

Good luck in your search for a stove system!

[Greenmountainguy]

Do you still have the Coleman Peak 1? Does it work? Would you care to sell it?
Thanks.
Wayne

A lot of people liked them, but they never did have good reviews. As I recall, the tank was huge enough for like a week of modest cooking for one. I guess that made it desirable.

[Greenmountainguy]

I retired a Coleman Peak 1 for much the same reason. I believe I still have an old Optimus 8R that I haven't fired up in years. The MSR Whisperlite is superior in all respects, IMO. Still a great stove for a group, or for deep winter, when I care much less about weight anyway.

I carried an 8R for years despite some dubious reviews. I mostly like it because of the stability. It never gave trouble lighting, although the boil time may have been mediocre.

[Greenmountainguy]

I started with an MSR pocket rocket and then got into alcohol stoves, first my own fancy feast stove and then Zelph's super cat can stove. If you are going to be alone, the alcohol stove is fine (and I may one day use it on my attempted thru hike), however, if you are with anyone who has a canister stove, you are going to be jealous of their fast boil times and simple use. Honestly, for the minimal weight difference, I think the canister stove with a titanium pot may be the better way to go. I use a snow peak pot and my MSR pocket rocket. I am sure there are multiple other areas where you can cut the weight to make up for the difference. I can not answer to the question of how available they are on a thru hike, however I would assume that the market will deliver what is desired, so as canister stoves become more popular, so will theiavailability of the canisters.

This is pretty much what has decided me. As much as I love the idea of a wood stove, the lack of fiddle time and the rapid start to boil time of a canister has pretty much sold me. Before posting I failed to do the math, an error which I have corrected.
The MSR line (or at least the ones I have) do not draw even for weight for a very long time as I calculate it, at least for three season use. I do not go out in winter.
Alcohol stove are attractive for the features folk have mentioned, and I thank the poster for making sense of the difference in weight between alcohol and water. The weight is attractive. I own a Trangia clone and I like it, although I have not cooked with it extensively. I hesitate because of the rather slower boil time.
Wood: I love tinkering with the stoves and although I have not taken them out for more than a day hike, they appeal, but sadly the weight does not balance for a considerable time out. The battery stove Sierra/ZZip has a bigger deficit due to the battery, not huge but present.
Canister: has become my choice in the cold light of day. I could have saved you all the trouble of responding had I merely sat down with a pad and pen, as I eventually did. I have used the stoves in the long-ago and found them sound, although expensive to operate. There is no denying the speed of lighting, speed of cooking and generally convenience of everything except small town supply. That fact recedes when I contemplate the cold reality of my inability to do more than a total of five days out. Most years I am not able to do that.
So, my fantasies of a very long distance thru hike recede into the background of grim reality. Up to five days, the canister wins. I just have to figure out my consumption and whether or not I can get by with the 4 oz. size canister.
Thank you all.

[Greenmountainguy]

Canister:..... I have used the stoves in the long-ago and found them sound, although expensive to operate. There is no denying the speed of lighting, speed of cooking and generally convenience of everything except small town supply. Up to five days, the canister wins. I just have to figure out my consumption and whether or not I can get by with the 4 oz. size canister.
Thank you all.

When I was much younger the financial hit of the canisters was significant and it loomed large in my consciousness. Now, realistically, it just does not matter when amortized out over a few days even. The stoves are cheap, as cheap as $7 from China and like $20 from the US.
Forget thru-hiking for the moment, just getting to the trail head and home, even in your car is realistically the biggest hit in a 3 to 5 day hike. You eat whether at home or on the trail, so you are basically even there. Your main expenditure is fuel for the stove, so how big is a $5 cartridge. Even in my distress circumstances it really is nill.

[Venchka]

A lot of people liked them, but they never did have good reviews. As I recall, the tank was huge enough for like a week of modest cooking for one. I guess that made it desirable.

The fuel bottle that came with my Peak 1 holds 15 ounces of white gas. Not exactly huge compared to the 29 ounce capacity of the fuel bottle I use with my Primus stove. Somewhere I read online that 1.5 ounces per day is a conservative estimate of white gas consumption. Looks like I could cook more food than I can carry.
Wayne


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[Hosh]

You might try an experiment to see what actual usage will be. I set up 1 liter h2o @ 50* in my 50* garage and then weight the canister before and after. For solo, I use about 10 grams per boil or less than 1oz per day assuming 2 hot meals.

I would think white gas would be more efficient not withstanding the fuel consumed while dinking around priming the stove.

[Turk6177]

I get 13 boils out of the smaller canister, if that helps.


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[Hosh]

That's about 8 grams per boil (liter?). Guessing your location, AZ has higher ambient and h20 temps. My experience was done with a SP Giga, now using BRS3000 so I so re-do