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  1. #41
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    Don't know is this would work with polycryo.

    Mine was the stiffer housewrap tyvek. The one in my pic is kinda heavy at 7.5oz, but it is extremely functional and durable. Especially on packed snow it is nice to have stuff not skittering around and out the edges of the tent at night.

    I have a Zpacks twin ground sheet that I might try to adapt to the Duomid. It is about half the weight of the Tyvek and I got a good deal on it. It has got that long, hex shape to it so I'll likely have to get creative when I finally gather the motivation to tackle that job.

  2. #42
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    I've been a polycro proponent for years, and so far, the only thing I've used for my zpacks tent floor (the solo+, with mesh floor).

    But talking to a triple crowner recently (I met him on the Long Trail this September), he swears by 1443R Tyvek. Lighter than the Tyvek a lot of folks use, and makes zero noise, so I bought 3 meters of it, and cut it into a bath tub floor for my zpacks, and will try it out.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.amazon.com/Kitemaking-Ma...RDTGQ2HF8F9WS5

    My polycro floor was 2 ounces, the 1443 Tyvek floor is just over twice that, basically the same as the cuben, around 4.5 ounces. We'll see how I like it, probably go back to polycro though, because that has always worked fine.
    Thats the stuff I use.

  3. #43

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    Does the ZPacks bathtub floors hold their shape without out being attached to a tarp? I'm sure you get a better bathtub effect while it is clipped above but if one were to use it by itself, and it still held its shape for the most part, I would probably consider it my ideal ground sheet, albeit pricey.

    I'm still trying to put together by ground shelter. So far I haven't pulled the trigger on anything. All I have discovered is no one makes a setup that is exactly what I'm looking for. So diy route is the way to go.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Does the ZPacks bathtub floors hold their shape without out being attached to a tarp?
    No

    In fact some, like twin size in hex twin, dont hold their shape that well while being clipped in

  5. #45

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    double post

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    No

    In fact some, like twin size in hex twin, dont hold their shape that well while being clipped in
    Disappointing but thank you for the answer. On their website it showed a picture with a bunch of gear stuffed in every corner and it held its bathtub shape. I was skeptical and once the cuben broke in a little I didn't think it would.

    So unless one was planning to always have it clipped it, do you think an ordinary flat ground sheet would serve one better?

  7. #47

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    One thing I've noticed with completely flat ground sheets is that for some reason, they tend to attract duff and somehow always end up on top of it. I noticed that with the piece of tyvek I use under my hammock as a clean place to put some gear.

    I'm more interested in a bathtub floor for keeping a clean organized space than water protection lol. I've never been flooded out because of good site selection. I guess the insurance off a bathtub is an added benefit when it comes to water resistance though.

    Just one man's journey in finding that perfect shelter for himself.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Good stuff. I've used stick on fiber binder ring hole washers to strengthen stake holes in polycro. To prevent the polycro from tearing, like you said you do, I don't put much force on it and attach some of the lightest wt micro bungee cord(1.2 mm) I but at Hobby Lobby or JoAnns fabrics to it to keep it almost taut but enough force that it stays put as a ground sheet with a 3-4" high bathtub edge. i stretch the nine out LOOSELY to my tarp stake so no extra stakes are need. It's the lightest wt bathtub floor I've made yet for a MLD Solomid and MLD Duomid. It's not as durable as Joes's ZPack's 1.o oz/sq yd bathtub floor but for sub $15 I can make two and one doesn't cost me $100+.
    How did you get the poly edges to stand up? Assume clipped into the mid above?


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  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysack View Post
    How did you get the poly edges to stand up? Assume clipped into the mid above?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I never cut the corners of the polycro. I fold them into that position. Look here in the Generic Tub Floor corner folding design. http://www.ddhammocks.com/explore/mo.../tarp_tutorial

    The "bellowed" flap consisting of two layers of polycro can be facing inwards, outwards or taped flat to create 3 or 4 layers of polycro. A small 1/16-1/8 " diam. hole is placed in the flap near the bathtub top edge that's reinforced with tiny 1/4" or so fiber stick on washers or fabric ring hole binder tab hole reinforcers. If I use the ones made for paper holes they are not a strong so I place one on each side of the hole to reinforce it. Look for the stronger fiber ones. Depending on the tape you're using if at all you may not need hole reinforcing washers. I like the added strength in these high force prone to being ripped areas so I add them. Wt penalty is less than 3 grams for 6 holes to be reinforced both sides.


    From the places I have the small reinforced holes I add about 6-9" of 1.2 mm (super light wt) elasticized bungee that stretch to double their cut length that stretch out to the included mitten hooks on the inside corners of the MLD SoloMid and Duomid. The bungee allows some range of play for different set up dimensions(floor space, height, etc). If your tarps, mids, etc don't have interior lower edge attachment pts for the bungee you can attache to the tarp/tent stakes. BUT, if you do that make sure water doesn't run down it into the bathtub groundsheet. One way is simply too make sure the bungee is angled down and away from the top edge of the bathtub.

    I like erecting mids with the ground edge 3" or off the ground to allow for greater airflow. I sometimes play with designs that vary the bathtub edge height 2-5" depending on what height I think needed to make it all work for me.

    Another additional design feature using polyolefin that addresses the edge holding up concern is by creating a strong top edge around the entire perimeter by making a small 1" or less folded hem using the double sided tape included in window film kits, like Duck Brand, in unison with the folded corner as shown above. A good alternative that can possibly be lighter wt is using 1/4- 3/8" wide TUCK TAPE which is great for outside uses and has never failed despite being drenched and immersed in water. It comes out of Canada. I've seen some people use painters's or masking tape which is too heavy IMHO, not sticky enough, and prone to failure once wet, damp, or overly cold. Too much or too heavy a tape or too wide a hem used on the top hem of the bathtub floor and it gets material weighted down unnecessarily so. It's mostly the bungee that holds up the top edge.


    Regardless of the design making bathtub floors out of polycro results in a UL/SUL TLC required groundsheet. They don't last forever and they will not function well if care isn't taken in the design and use.


    For larger ground sheets for larger floor area shelters where the approach is a one stop polycro one and not everyone is on same extra TLC needed page that might use the shelter(children, dog, etc) I can recognize problems concerning concerning durability, holes, tears, dislodging of the polycro ground sheet, slipperiness, etc. Add really wet conditions, some lack of site prep(sand spurs/cockle spurs/manzanita spurs, sweetgum or sycamore tree fruit, a tiny pine cone, pine tree sticks, tree sap, sharp pebbles, bulky sometimes hard nodes of various ornamental turf grasses etc), mud, etc and polycro can become just more crap needed to be hauled out.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Disappointing but thank you for the answer. On their website it showed a picture with a bunch of gear stuffed in every corner and it held its bathtub shape. I was skeptical and once the cuben broke in a little I didn't think it would.

    So unless one was planning to always have it clipped it, do you think an ordinary flat ground sheet would serve one better?
    well if you put rocks in the corners maybe
    but site selection is everything
    shouldnt need a bathtub really with enough tarp overhang
    with minimal overhang a high one like 8" helps with the splashing from heavy rain

    If you have oversized flat polycro sheet, or PE, or whatever, gather corners and use the elastic cord and keepers to hold each corner, you can make a bathtub floor with anything .

    Works very well.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    One thing I've noticed with completely flat ground sheets is that for some reason, they tend to attract duff and somehow always end up on top of it. I noticed that with the piece of tyvek I use under my hammock as a clean place to put some gear.

    I'm more interested in a bathtub floor for keeping a clean organized space than water protection lol. I've never been flooded out because of good site selection. I guess the insurance off a bathtub is an added benefit when it comes to water resistance though.

    Just one man's journey in finding that perfect shelter for himself.

    With a flat ground sheet set up on duff like a thick bed of leaves whenever I can I walk the spot to decompress the fallen leaves first. Sometimes if the leaves are particular thick I may scatter them a bit to make less thick sometimes getting down to matted wet fallen leaves than adding a few dry ones on top. Then putting the polycro on top. I find this important during the fall with lots of dry leaves and swirling wind. Running my feet and hands quickly over the site also exposes sharp objects, roots, depressions hidden by leaves, etc. I don't do this to the extent that after I pack up in the morn I now leave what is easily visible or recognizable as a newly established campsite. I may even rearrange the leaves sticks or pine cones as I originally found them.

    Might additionally make note of prevailing wind setting up shelter like a tarp or mid with the leading edge heading into the wind set low to the ground or nearly so. This applies to groundsheet in a floor less shelter too. The groundsheet can be raised up on the leading edge heading into the wind or raised up higher if it's a slightly sloped campsite to allow water to flow under rather than onto the top of the groundsheet. In this way one can possibly avoid bathtub floor designs entirely in milder weather.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Disappointing but thank you for the answer. On their website it showed a picture with a bunch of gear stuffed in every corner and it held its bathtub shape. I was skeptical and once the cuben broke in a little I didn't think it would.

    So unless one was planning to always have it clipped it, do you think an ordinary flat ground sheet would serve one better?
    I follow Muddy Waters approach more than having a need always for bathtub designed floors. For those perhaps not inclined to view things more profoundly or want not to think about shelters or campsite prep or CS locations as profoundly or aren't into considering and anticipating hike conditions matching their heart to the hike and those conditions as fully as others the one stop totally integrated tent can be a mentally easier digested shelter approach.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I never cut the corners of the polycro. I fold them into that position. Look here in the Generic Tub Floor corner folding design. http://www.ddhammocks.com/explore/mo.../tarp_tutorial

    The "bellowed" flap consisting of two layers of polycro can be facing inwards, outwards or taped flat to create 3 or 4 layers of polycro. A small 1/16-1/8 " diam. hole is placed in the flap near the bathtub top edge that's reinforced with tiny 1/4" or so fiber stick on washers or fabric ring hole binder tab hole reinforcers. If I use the ones made for paper holes they are not a strong so I place one on each side of the hole to reinforce it. Look for the stronger fiber ones. Depending on the tape you're using if at all you may not need hole reinforcing washers. I like the added strength in these high force prone to being ripped areas so I add them. Wt penalty is less than 3 grams for 6 holes to be reinforced both sides.


    From the places I have the small reinforced holes I add about 6-9" of 1.2 mm (super light wt) elasticized bungee that stretch to double their cut length that stretch out to the included mitten hooks on the inside corners of the MLD SoloMid and Duomid. The bungee allows some range of play for different set up dimensions(floor space, height, etc). If your tarps, mids, etc don't have interior lower edge attachment pts for the bungee you can attache to the tarp/tent stakes. BUT, if you do that make sure water doesn't run down it into the bathtub groundsheet. One way is simply too make sure the bungee is angled down and away from the top edge of the bathtub.

    I like erecting mids with the ground edge 3" or off the ground to allow for greater airflow. I sometimes play with designs that vary the bathtub edge height 2-5" depending on what height I think needed to make it all work for me.

    Another additional design feature using polyolefin that addresses the edge holding up concern is by creating a strong top edge around the entire perimeter by making a small 1" or less folded hem using the double sided tape included in window film kits, like Duck Brand, in unison with the folded corner as shown above. A good alternative that can possibly be lighter wt is using 1/4- 3/8" wide TUCK TAPE which is great for outside uses and has never failed despite being drenched and immersed in water. It comes out of Canada. I've seen some people use painters's or masking tape which is too heavy IMHO, not sticky enough, and prone to failure once wet, damp, or overly cold. Too much or too heavy a tape or too wide a hem used on the top hem of the bathtub floor and it gets material weighted down unnecessarily so. It's mostly the bungee that holds up the top edge.


    Regardless of the design making bathtub floors out of polycro results in a UL/SUL TLC required groundsheet. They don't last forever and they will not function well if care isn't taken in the design and use.


    For larger ground sheets for larger floor area shelters where the approach is a one stop polycro one and not everyone is on same extra TLC needed page that might use the shelter(children, dog, etc) I can recognize problems concerning concerning durability, holes, tears, dislodging of the polycro ground sheet, slipperiness, etc. Add really wet conditions, some lack of site prep(sand spurs/cockle spurs/manzanita spurs, sweetgum or sycamore tree fruit, a tiny pine cone, pine tree sticks, tree sap, sharp pebbles, bulky sometimes hard nodes of various ornamental turf grasses etc), mud, etc and polycro can become just more crap needed to be hauled out.
    Perfect thx....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #54
    Registered User Elaikases's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    I have used poly-cro for many years and it is very durable and light weight. Walmart has an off brand of patio door thermal window film that is wide enough for most tent footprints.

    Tyvek is noisy unless ran through a washer several times, it is also heavier. I used it for several years before switching.

    I have roll of Tyvek left over from building a house, if you want some, pay shipping and it's yours.
    How much for the shipping to Texas?

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Does the ZPacks bathtub floors hold their shape without out being attached to a tarp? I'm sure you get a better bathtub effect while it is clipped above but if one were to use it by itself, and it still held its shape for the most part, I would probably consider it my ideal ground sheet, albeit pricey.

    I'm still trying to put together by ground shelter. So far I haven't pulled the trigger on anything. All I have discovered is no one makes a setup that is exactly what I'm looking for. So diy route is the way to go.
    without being bungeed up the ZP CF walls of the bathtub groundsheets flop some along the long sides. However even if not bungeed and say a piece of decent wt gear is held against the inside walls on the top(head) and foot ends the ZO bathtubs tauten up a bit.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I never cut the corners of the polycro. I fold them into that position. Look here in the Generic Tub Floor corner folding design. http://www.ddhammocks.com/explore/mo.../tarp_tutorial

    The "bellowed" flap consisting of two layers of polycro can be facing inwards, outwards or taped flat to create 3 or 4 layers of polycro. A small 1/16-1/8 " diam. hole is placed in the flap near the bathtub top edge that's reinforced with tiny 1/4" or so fiber stick on washers or fabric ring hole binder tab hole reinforcers. If I use the ones made for paper holes they are not a strong so I place one on each side of the hole to reinforce it. Look for the stronger fiber ones. Depending on the tape you're using if at all you may not need hole reinforcing washers. I like the added strength in these high force prone to being ripped areas so I add them. Wt penalty is less than 3 grams for 6 holes to be reinforced both sides.


    From the places I have the small reinforced holes I add about 6-9" of 1.2 mm (super light wt) elasticized bungee that stretch to double their cut length that stretch out to the included mitten hooks on the inside corners of the MLD SoloMid and Duomid. The bungee allows some range of play for different set up dimensions(floor space, height, etc). If your tarps, mids, etc don't have interior lower edge attachment pts for the bungee you can attache to the tarp/tent stakes. BUT, if you do that make sure water doesn't run down it into the bathtub groundsheet. One way is simply too make sure the bungee is angled down and away from the top edge of the bathtub.

    I like erecting mids with the ground edge 3" or off the ground to allow for greater airflow. I sometimes play with designs that vary the bathtub edge height 2-5" depending on what height I think needed to make it all work for me.

    Another additional design feature using polyolefin that addresses the edge holding up concern is by creating a strong top edge around the entire perimeter by making a small 1" or less folded hem using the double sided tape included in window film kits, like Duck Brand, in unison with the folded corner as shown above. A good alternative that can possibly be lighter wt is using 1/4- 3/8" wide TUCK TAPE which is great for outside uses and has never failed despite being drenched and immersed in water. It comes out of Canada. I've seen some people use painters's or masking tape which is too heavy IMHO, not sticky enough, and prone to failure once wet, damp, or overly cold. Too much or too heavy a tape or too wide a hem used on the top hem of the bathtub floor and it gets material weighted down unnecessarily so. It's mostly the bungee that holds up the top edge.


    Regardless of the design making bathtub floors out of polycro results in a UL/SUL TLC required groundsheet. They don't last forever and they will not function well if care isn't taken in the design and use.


    For larger ground sheets for larger floor area shelters where the approach is a one stop polycro one and not everyone is on same extra TLC needed page that might use the shelter(children, dog, etc) I can recognize problems concerning concerning durability, holes, tears, dislodging of the polycro ground sheet, slipperiness, etc. Add really wet conditions, some lack of site prep(sand spurs/cockle spurs/manzanita spurs, sweetgum or sycamore tree fruit, a tiny pine cone, pine tree sticks, tree sap, sharp pebbles, bulky sometimes hard nodes of various ornamental turf grasses etc), mud, etc and polycro can become just more crap needed to be hauled out.
    I assume you fold the poly into bath tub floor then punch holes for corner tie outs and simply fold up as bath tub when packing up...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #57

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    I've heard that particular "fold" called a military bend as it resembles the foot end of a neatly dressed bed you could bounce a quarter on...or else!

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysack View Post
    I assume you fold the poly into bath tub floor then punch holes for corner tie outs and simply fold up as bath tub when packing up...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You got it. Poly on the bottom side sometimes is damp so I may air it out a few mins before packing it up. Poly, even bathtub polycros, can be very compacted. It goes right in the stuff sack with either the Duo or SoloMid. Just don't puncture it or it can shred outward from the puncture. It's definitely not ripstop. Repair any small rips along edges especially promptly with duct tape.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    You got it. Poly on the bottom side sometimes is damp so I may air it out a few mins before packing it up. Poly, even bathtub polycros, can be very compacted. It goes right in the stuff sack with either the Duo or SoloMid. Just don't puncture it or it can shred outward from the puncture. It's definitely not ripstop. Repair any small rips along edges especially promptly with duct tape.
    Thx...I see GG calls there's polycro but Mld doesn't? Assume same....


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  20. #60

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    I recall theres more than one wt of the polycro
    Mine have been from GG, worked fine. Dont know which it is

    Can mail order the frost king ? w indow insul kit on amazon

    Was a thread on bpl once discussing relative merits of different ones. I dont remember anything about it except some were heavier
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 12-07-2016 at 11:55.

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