howdy, first timer. advice welcome

[dywolf]

Howdy. Lurked for a bit past couple years, first time actually posting.
(warning, I tend to talk too much in posts, and barely speak at all in person.)
(and sorry for the wall of text; the line breaks aren't coming through like they should)

Been trying to get out to a long distance hike in the Sierras for couple years now since I'm from Reno area and miss my mountains being stuck in OKC, but various things (like not having enough vacation days) kept getting in the way. This is the first year I might actually be able to do it, assuming bossman signs off on the vacation.

I've begun the application attempts this morn, shooting for a 7/23-7/25 start date out of Lyell Canyon trailhead (I don't mind skipping Happy Isles as my vacation days are limited, and that cuts a few days off the trip, and I figure with a night in MMH and a night in Lyell canyon I should be ok altitude wise as long as I start off easy the first few days), with the goal of finishing around 8/12 in order to be back before the wife's new school year starts (she's a teacher) so she doesn't have to work and wrangle our kids same time (personally I would prefer a later start, last week Aug/first week Sept). But I know bout the deal with permits and availability, so there's a fair bit of flexibility, assuming I can get the wife to accept me being gone a bit of the school year.

I've figured out the regular scheduled flights and bus schedules, so I've got a rough idea of transit to and from (and maybe this info will help others with similar Midwest for travel planning) is like, and allowing me to be fairly flexible on actual dates of travel. What I found is a regular evening United flight direct from OKC to LAX at 450pm; perfect for me since I get off work at 315, so I can go direct after I get off (did the same schedule before when I was still doing my reservist drills in GA, so I know its workable.) Then there's a once a day flight from LAX to Mammoth on Alaska Airlines in the morning at 810am, so do have to overnight, either in the terminal or a nearby hotel. And of course from Mammoth there's then the bus into Yosemite, assuming the road is open (assuming it will be by mid July even though they currently say closed for season and no ETA on opening).

Then for return, once I get to Lone Pine (either by walking or bumming a ride), on Mon/Wed/Fri the Lancaster route bus passed through LP at 5pm and arrives back at Mammoth at 7pm. Overnight again, and then catch the Alaska flight as it returns to LAX at 1005am, followed by United direct back to OKC at 1245pm.

The actual hiking itinerary I've not nailed down yet since the whole thing is moot until and if a permit is obtained and for what days.
But for now, my initial planning looks like this:
Jul 21 - 1515: Leave work
Jul 21 - 1650: Flight to LAX
Jul 22 - 810: Flight to MMH
--> Spend night in MMH
Jul 23 - Bus to Tuolumne Meadows
Jul 23 - Pickup Permit, start walking, camp a bit before Donahue pass
Hiking..
Hiking..
Hiking..
Still Hiking..
Aug 11 - Arrive/camp near Whitney, spend night
Aug 12 - get early start, go up and down Whitney
Aug 12 - bum ride to Lone Pine; worst case get taxi as walking would throw off the time table
Aug 12 - 1700: Ride bus back to MMH--> Spend night in MMH again
Aug 13 - 1005: Fly back to LAX
Aug 13 - 1245: Fly back to OKC
Aug 13 - 1800: Arrive home and ask wife's forgiveness for the hell of wrangling kids alone for 3 weeks :P

So...my questions thus far are:
....am I crazy, besides the whole thinking I might actually get a permit to start from Lyell Canyon thing? I know some people write about spending years planning a hiking trip like this

....if I start at the Lyell Canyon TH, I do pick up the permit at the TM Visitor Center, right? I may have missed the NPS page that spelled that out, I just want to be clear

....alternates if no exit permit: I do want to do the JMT my first time out simply because it is my first time out, and being a more travelled trail I figure that gives me some margin to prevent screw-ups that I might regret. That said, two alternatives I've considered are:

-still doing the JMT, but simply skipping the Yosemite portion altogether, and just entering the trail from Mammoth Devil's Postpile. Does mean I can cut out a few hiking days, or keep them and linger longer. I know that changes the permit requirements a bit, since Yosemite is one permit good the whole way, so I do need to read up that more, but that is a viable alternative yes?

-skipping the JMT and going the other direction, up to Tahoe. roughly the same distance (ok, a bit more), and being from Reno, some old buddies can pick me up as I change my travel plans to fly in and out of Reno. Resupplies would be a bit different, but from looking at it last year (almost made up plans for this last year as I missed the permit window for JMT, but grandmother passed, so spent my travel plans and vacation days visiting family) I would have to cross 3 or 4 highways that run across the mountains, so if I planned it right I could simply meet the same buddies where the trail meets the road for my resupplies.

course, if I skip the JMT and go full different trail, anything is fair, but as said, JMT is goal for the first time out. I read someone suggest that someone try Colorado Trail from Denver to Durango; we actually spent two nights in Durango couple years ago when drove x-country to visit my grandparents in Redding. Nice place. Don't know if I want to do that trail yet though. And seems would have harder tiem fitting it into my limited days.

So anyway....fire away with comments, advice, etc.

[Sprout78]

If I were you, I'd leave the JMT for a time when you can take your time to enjoy it. It is literally one of the most beautiful and scenic trails in the world. It would be a shame for you to rush the experience. Also, it is getting arduous to get a permit for it these days. Have you checked that process?

You mentioned the CT. I don't know if you'd be able to do the whole thing in the time you have unless you're in killer shape and willing to go over 20 miles a day the whole time. However, there are some easy bail spots along the CT. If you fly in to Denver, you can bail in Breckenridge and easily get public/private transit back to Denver. You don't need permits for the CT, and the time of year you mentioned in your post is perfect for the trail.

It really depends on what your goals are when you are hiking.
Have a great time!

[dywolf]

dangit. phone ate the response; short version of reply:yeah, if did CT would have to bail part way. but like said, part of reason for JMT is its a bit of a known quantity even before I set foot on it, which is reassuring for a first time trip; really not much that go wrong as long I've got food and water. its not that I don't think I can do it, I just don't want to push my luck while I get comfortable with my abilities (walk before run, all that) before I start hitting some of my real goals (high route, CT, Arizona Trail, and later the AT PCT CDT and ADT).don't gotta sell me on the scenery; remember, grew up Reno. car camped in the northern sierra several times on Lassen and such (though technically I guess that's Cascades; whatever). but I also know me, and I definitely have a bit of the go go go mentality where I have to be doing something constantly (wife complains that I got two speeds: Stop and B**s to the wall). Not as much as other Marines (I was considered laid back), but definitely some. so to my mind 3 weeks is a tad slow for a straight thru hike. as it is, I'd probably slip some side trips into the hike to check out nearby lakes (I love mountain lakes/streams), and even catch a few fish, to kill time in the timetable.I do plan on keeping the CT in mind as an alternate, but it's priority comes a bit after some of the other possible I've got in mind.

[dywolf]

wow there really is no way to get reliable line breaks, is there?maybe home computer will work better once I get there.

[Turk6177]

I have a couple thoughts. Firstly, know that Alaska Airlines only flies once per day into MMH. I tried to fly there from Phx, the plane got canceled and I ended up having to drive from LA in a rental to keep my itinerary. I had similar issues on the way back, including them losing my backpack for a few days, barely making the connection in LA. Secondly, there are a number of "walk up" permits that each ranger station reserves each day. If you are going solo, you could possibly get one of those, however it could be risky heading all the way out there without a solid plan. I did that from Yosemite and got a permit for the next day with ease. I am not sure if Tuolumne Meadows has a backpacker campground like Yosemite, but if it does, if you bus in, you can spend a night and get up extremely early to get in line at the ranger station for a permit. Assuming you get on the trail, you should have no problem finishing in 19 days. I did the whole trail in 19 days including two nero's in and out of MTR, and I am an over 40 guy who carries a few extra pounds. As far as after your hike goes, you should easily be able to get a ride to Lone Pine from the portal. Stand near the parking lot and just ask for a ride. We got 6 of us a ride in two cars in a matter of minutes. The only way out goes past Lone Pine so people don't mind. Depending on the time of day and the Eastern shuttle schedule, you may spend a night in Lone Pine or make it back to MMR. It depends on timing. I would say go for it. Hiking solo gives you a pretty decent shot of getting a walk up permit. I would use MTR as a resupply point. You can find info about how to mail them a bucket for resupply. Make sure you send it a week or so before you leave so they have time to bring it in. Last advice, bring chap stick. It is amazing how dry the air is at altitude. Happy hiking. I hope to read a trail journal or something of the sort regarding your adventure.

[Collin]

wow there really is no way to get reliable line breaks, is there?maybe home computer will work better once I get there.

So the "new" rules PDF they have on the NPS website say to fax the application the day of (after PST midnight) until 10:30am. I found it the easiest to "pay" for an online fax service that has a $10 a month fee but you can cancel any time the first month for a full refund. I would wake up at 6am EST and shoot the fax over before work. Usually took 5 minutes (this was 3 weeks ago though so volume is up) and the good thing about the online service is that it keeps trying when it doesn't go through and emails you when it does.

Side note- everyone hikes differently. I am doing the hike in 2 weeks. I love the beauty of the outdoors but also enjoy hiking. I enjoy the view while moving, but I rarely stop for more than 45 minutes before camp because I get antsy to move and explore more. It all depends on how you like your outdoors. From Lyell Canyon 3 weeks is 9.5 miles a day.

[MuddyWaters]

1. Realize your chances are slim, but going for Lyell Canyon is better than the Yosemite Valley
2. Honestly, dont even concern yourself with other plans until AFTER you have your permit reservation n hand. If your days of week change, it can change everything when you get to Lone Pine. Arriving on a friday isnt good, for instance.

Theres multiple ways to get there. But getting home via Reno is easiest

[dywolf]

So the "new" rules PDF they have on the NPS website say to fax the application the day of (after PST midnight) until 10:30am.

Hmm. I was going by what the website said ( http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisi...ermitdates.htm ) about having until 730am the next day (fax processed day) to get my fax in (Jul 23 target, Feb 5 first day to fax, Feb 6 fax processed, so this morning). I tried to use the machine at work, but it was wasnt cooperating, so i didnt get it faxed until my shift ended and I stopped at a Kinkos.

[dywolf]

Firstly, know that Alaska Airlines only flies once per day into MMH. I tried to fly there from Phx, the plane got canceled and I ended up having to drive from LA in a rental to keep my itinerary. I had similar issues on the way back, including them losing my backpack for a few days, barely making the connection in LA.

Hmmm. Any idea how often it gets canceled? I didnt turn up any information on that when I first researched it (google flights is usually pretty good about noting which flights are often late or canceled)
Was it a one way rental at least? Where did you drop it?

[Coffee]

Since the Colorado Trail was mentioned, I thought I'd suggest the idea of hiking the Collegiate Loop. It is about 160 miles in total length which is shorter than the JMT since time seems to be an issue. On my thru hike of the Colorado Trail, I opted for the Collegiate West which is about 80 miles. I haven't hiked the Collegiate East which is also about 80 miles and goes through lower elevation areas. The Collegiate West is beautiful and uncrowded. The views are spectacular since you are usually above treeline and in my opinion, this part of the CT rivals the JMT in many respects. Transportation and logistics are easy. You can take a bus from Denver to Salida and use Salida as the base for the loop, and then take a bus back to Denver. You can also take multiple buses to Leadville and start from Twin Lakes. There are no permits required for the Colorado Trail except self-issue permits that you fill out on the trail itself in certain wilderness areas. Personally I would opt for a Collegiate Loop hike over the JMT if time is an issue. You don't want to rush through the JMT.

[MuddyWaters]

Theres always people in lone pine from LA.
Its not hard to get a hitch to there.
Offer to pay for gas.

[Collin]

Hmm. I was going by what the website said ( http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisi...ermitdates.htm ) about having until 730am the next day (fax processed day) to get my fax in (Jul 23 target, Feb 5 first day to fax, Feb 6 fax processed, so this morning). I tried to use the machine at work, but it was wasnt cooperating, so i didnt get it faxed until my shift ended and I stopped at a Kinkos.

Whoops. That's because I gave you EST. Sorry bout that.

[dywolf]

Hmmm. They say there should be an email reply within 24 hours of processing, for denial as well. I expect some delay from volume, but how much is normal?

[HooKooDooKu]

Hmmm. They say there should be an email reply within 24 hours of processing, for denial as well. I expect some delay from volume, but how much is normal?

I was usually getting my denial notice between 3:00pm and 5:00pm Central Time.

[dywolf]

OK just got the denial email. Now that I think on it, I should have realized they probably don't work on Sunday. Duh.Oh well, already faxed in the 2nd request this morning, using the online fax thing Collin suggested (wish I had thought of that; much easier).

[HooKooDooKu]

I don't understand the weekend thing... and I think it might be something new.

Sometime in the last few weeks, they updated the page with the chart that shows when you can send in your permit request (the new chart with the extra column showing when you can send in the fax v when they process it v what day you want to start hiking... much clearer with the new chart).

At about the same time, I came across something that sounded like they were not going to process permit requests on weekends and holidays anymore. But the 1st weekend after I saw that notification, I still received denial emails on that Saturday and Sunday.

So perhaps they now are actually following what sounds like a new change... no longer processing permit requests on weekends and holidays.

[dywolf]

ok i just figured out that i wasnt supposed to use the next two consecutive days for my alternates, and so lost out on about 6 lotteries so far. oops.

[dywolf]

update: actually got permit on 2 or 3rd correctly filled form.July 28 start from Lyell Canyon.Possibility boss will put kibosh on the trip still as the contract (possibly) changes hands this summer, and could lose the 5 saved vacation days I have for this year that I was gonna pair with the 10 days for next year on Aug 1 (CBA mandated). but I can't help that stuff, so I'm just gonna keep planning like it's gonna happen, and just take a week unpaid if have to.