Baxter state park

[mtntopper]

Just a few quick thoughts on the "BSP Situation".... I just finished the AT a few days ago (10/1). BSP was definitely a highlight, and Maine is The Best state along the trail, to be sure... Katahdin was, of course, a fine finish.

Anyway, at the time my wife and I were there (she did the 100-mile and Katahdin with me), there were at least a couple dozen AT thru hikers of all ages (but mostly 20-somethings), and I witnessed zero bad behavior in the three days we spent in the park, with the exception of one particular ranger, who really had a bug up his butt. The other rangers were friendly, informative and fun and really seemed to like their jobs.

The ranger with the bug up his butt just plain wasn't friendly, plus he kicked 8 people off the ranger station porch in a torrential downpour (and we were already soaking wet to the bone from the all day rain last Wednesday), even after a much friendlier ranger told us we could stay there as long as we liked. We (my wife and I and another older couple) had a dry place (lean-to) to go, a group of 4 young thru hikers did not, though the four of us eventually chipped in and bought them one. We had all been waiting for a shuttle to Millinocket, which never came that night.

The next day after we summited and were gathered at the ranger station, an official BSP vehicle showed up and four sparkly clean, perfectly dressed people got out and visibly scowled at the ~20 thru hikers waiting for the AT Lodge shuttles; one even said something in a nasty tone stating that no, they would not be any sort of a ride for any of us. My wife and I were amused, but not surprised. We saw them again the next morning in the AT café, same smug looks. From an earlier pic in one of the news stories, I think one of them was one of the guys who had it in for Scott Jurek.

I any case, we did like BSP enough that we plan on returning and re-climbing Katahdin by some additional routes. We sure hope the ATC and BSP can get together and find some "solutions to the problem", though we witnessed absolutely zero problems. Non AT hikers outnumbered AT hikers by at least 10 to 1, and I sure can't see where any significant extra resources go to supporting AT thru hikers, other than a 5-minute check-in at the ranger station. I just don't get it. Much ado about nothing IMHO.

You were there for 3 days and saw what you saw and then reported it here. I have a feeling that if you were there everyday for months you would come away feeling somewhat different if you were to see and witness what they have been reporting.

The rules are the rules. Whether I agree with them or not they still are the rules. It seems to me that more education from hikers to hikers would be a good thing. We started a task force to help with educating people on the trail here in Catawba Va.

As far as Scott Jurek goes. He got what he deserved. He and his group broke the rules, blatantly in the presence of a BSP official.

[Starchild]

BSP biggest issue is that they have Katahdin inside their property. Their mission statement is clearly outside what this mountain represents. Perhaps they should sell this land and buy some other that would be more in tune to whom they feel Governor Baxtor's wishes were so he can rest in peace.

[mtntopper]

BSP biggest issue is that they have Katahdin inside their property. Their mission statement is clearly outside what this mountain represents. Perhaps they should sell this land and buy some other that would be more in tune to whom they feel Governor Baxtor's wishes were so he can rest in peace.

What is their mission statement?

[colorado_rob]

You were there for 3 days and saw what you saw and then reported it here. I have a feeling that if you were there everyday for months you would come away feeling somewhat different if you were to see and witness what they have been reporting.

The rules are the rules. Whether I agree with them or not they still are the rules. It seems to me that more education from hikers to hikers would be a good thing. We started a task force to help with educating people on the trail here in Catawba Va.

As far as Scott Jurek goes. He got what he deserved. He and his group broke the rules, blatantly in the presence of a BSP official.

What-EV-er on the SJ thing... what did he "get" exactly by the way? Not much except a tarnished name from some unfortunate circumstance.

But yeah, I agree 3 days certainly isn't even close to enough time to make any judgments whatsoever, but I came away with an entirely different feeling than I had expected; it was a serene and happy place, dominated by non thru hikers, even though it was mid-week. And I saw it in both horrible and perfect weather. I have to ask though.... I spent 2 nights and part of 3 days there... have you spent any time there yourself?

Good for you and others in that education thing (I mean this sincerely, not being sarcastic). We saw flyers in all shelters and little trail Kiosks throughout Maine talking about behavior in BSP. Maybe this is all that is really needed to keep most of the isolated but unnecessarily obnoxious events from happening in BSP (and in your case, VA). I just hope that BSP and the ATC don't over-react either way and sane heads prevail in the long run.

I have nothing but respect for Gov. Baxter for what he did to bring this park into existence. It really is a fantastic place.

[Traveler]

And then you've got a whole new group of people competing for reservations in BSP, many of which will be no shows because they really don't know exactly when they'll get to the park. This would just create another reason to move the terminus.

If the problem was rule breakers in the park the fix would be easy, just enforce the rules and fine people. But that's not the problem.
If the problem was a lack of funding then just increase fees to hikers. But that's not the problem either.

The problem is BSP doesn't want to deal with the flood of thru-hikers in September and October. The fix for that problem is move the terminus. And that can't be done until BPS lays the groundwork of multiple complaints over a few years. Then they can say "we tried, it didn't work, get out". Then park leadership will be happy.

Reservation systems can be worked out successfully, as evidenced by the air travel industry, but will require some investment. The question is more where the ATC wants the trail to end. At Katahdin summit, Abol Bridge, Huber Road, or other point. Once that is determined the problems become logistical in nature and solvable. Doing nothing won't be an option much longer.

[peakbagger]

I expect there will be fewer thruhiker issues this year then last and the reason has nothing to do with SJ. The reason is a very unusual weather pattern. Relative to past years, Maine and much of northern new England has been in borderline drought conditions. Since the end of august, there has been significant rain about 1 day out of 7 at worst (unfortunately Colorado Rob seems to have picked the rainiest day in the stretch to visit). The "system" in place currently can handle the average distance hiker loading (not without some issues) where the system gets fouled up is bad weather day. Hikers are going to tend to queue up outside the park and inside the park to go up the summit on a sunny day and that's where the problems arise. On rainy day folks at the Birches are going to stay an extra day or fill up a spare slot at KSC leaving no room for the next days group of arriving thru hikers. They then have nothing to do but sit around and if they can find a source, that's the time when alcohol or drugs can fuel less than polite behavior. On typical years the standard rule of thumb is you get one good day out of three to summit Baxter, usually its sunny one day , partly cloudy the next and rain and thunderstorms the day after. Thus on typical year 1 in 3 of the days is probably going to lead to more distance hikers wanted to get in the park then there are open slots. This year its more like 1 in 7 days. On some years a big front moves in in late September early October and the wait for reasonable weather may stretch out to 5 or more days of rain. I expect in that situation, a lot of tempers get pretty raw on the behalf of staff and hikers.

As I had pointed out long ago in my solution post (that eventually got hijacked into one of many SJ threads), there could be system put in place using a shuttle van and someone to manage it by using the state campground at Abol bridge for overflow when the Birches and other slots in the park fill up. There is another obvious alternative to those familiar with the reservation system that could nearly triple overnight slots for thruhikers in the park but based on my observation prior to Labor day, I expect the majority of space related issues kick in from mid September onto early October. As for entitlement issues that are ultimately the source for bad behavior and ignoring the rules, the only hope is lots of education and someone in the background to enforce the rules. All of these options require money and staff time and those costs should not be on Baxter's dime. Unfortunately ATC is a non profit and non profits tend to spend their money on high profile acquisitions that attract more visibility and donations. Most folks would prefer cutting a check to "save the highlands" then one to deal with difficult thruhikers with entitlement issues. MATC runs on shoestring and stretches every buck to the maximum amount possible, funding a shuttle services and an paid staff member is luxury they can not afford to do. Contrary to popular belief the cost to run a shuttle and staff it is not going to get covered by a donation can and a couple of buck fee.

I tend to give the rangers a lot of slack, rarely does a seasonal ranger last more than a season if they have a attitude against guests. Permanent rangers are frequently out of sight of the public but if they have survived the long wait for full time, they also have good guest skills. What many folks don't realize is that the ranger does not work an 8 hour day. It highly likely that the KSC ranger is called out for search and rescue of lost or injured hiker several times a week and typically that means getting to bed around 1 or 2 AM the next morning. These S&R operations use multiple staff so all the staff tends to get little sleep. They then have to be up before sunrise (4:30 in early summer) to meet the next days day hikers. Most folks can pull that off for just a few days and then exhaustion kicks in. Thus when some entitled brat comes in their face complaining that they deserve a ride around the park or into Millinocket after their hike or demand a place to camp or decide that the rules don't apply I expect some of those brats would report the rangers as having an attitude.

As the previous poster noted, doing nothing wont be an option and that's really what the park director was pointing out in his second letter to ATC and MATC which had been predated by a similar letter a few years previously. The numbers are going up and the ATC is actively promoting higher visibility of the AT thus ATC and MATC have to be proactive and their efforts to date haven't been enough.

[peakbagger]

Duplicate post (don't know why the forum is doing this lately)

[Skyline]

Katahdin is a glorious place to end, or begin, a long hike. It would be a shame to lose it. But it's their Park, their rules, and they can do what they want. Users of the Park can fight to change those rules if they want to (good luck with that!) but if they break those rules there are consequences. For them and all who follow.

Far more likely than changing rules would be if ATC, ALDHA, Maine ATC, or a combination of these clubs plus other individuals and sponsors made an offer to help put boots on the ground in the form of BSP ridgerunners whose only purpose is to deal with AT hikers. They would report via satellite phone or walkie talkie anything that they cannot handle on their own so BSP law enforcement rangers can quickly intercede.

Yes, this will cost $$$. Better get busy. I'll pledge a few $$$ each year if this effort gets going. Probably others would too. And each organization or sponsor would need to prioritize this to a degree.

This sounds mean and militaristic but it's likely the only way to curb the behavior of a few who are ruining it for everyone else.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.insideedition.com/headlin...ering-concerns

[rickb]

http://www.insideedition.com/headlin...ering-concerns

While I can understand the sentiment, not sure about leaving a whole cupful of cremated remains like that right at Baxter Peak.

[Traveler]

While I can understand the sentiment, not sure about leaving a whole cupful of cremated remains like that right at Baxter Peak.

A permit is required for scattering cremains around a State or National Park in the New England States. I seriously doubt permission would be given for bits of people to be tossed on the ground at the Terminus sign as that video shows. What the clown in the video is doing is past creepy, just watching the dust from Poppi float about, I wonder how many people breathed that in over the following few days.

Not all cremains are the same. One of the reasons for permitting this process is some cremains have bits of bone and teeth in them that can easily be confused with remains from a body that would launch an investigation.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/30...ng-raises-ire/

[Old Hillwalker]

Good old faux news

[Lone Wolf]

Good old faux news

nothin' fake about the article. would you prefer MSNBC or CNN or BBC?

[egilbe]

nothin' fake about the article. would you prefer MSNBC or CNN or BBC?

Maybe the BBC. American news has lost its journalistic integrity and is for entertainment value only. The article is real. The intentions behind it is suspect.

[WingedMonkey]

Hundreds of miles away, misbehaving hikers contributed to a small Pennsylvania community's recent decision to shutter the sleeping quarters it had offered for decades in the basement of its municipal building.

Assuming they mean the "Jail House".

They could have at least provided a source.

Other "news" reports have said otherwise.

[Traveler]

I had to like the Jurek quote and subsequent actions to his behavior as reported, clearly a message needed to be sent:

"There is always a bad apple or two, but these are people that spend four to six months for a year on the trail, on their feet, experiencing the wilderness. I can't imagine them wanting to do things that would violate the wilderness," said Scott Jurek, an ultramarathoner from Colorado who last month completed the trail in a record time of 46 days, eight hours.
After celebrating with a bottle of champagne at Katahdin's summit, Jurek received citations for consuming alcohol, hiking with a large group and littering. He argued that the citations were unfair and that Baxter officials were using him to send a message to problem hikers.

[mtntopper]

I had to like the Jurek quote and subsequent actions to his behavior as reported, clearly a message needed to be sent:

"There is always a bad apple or two, but these are people that spend four to six months for a year on the trail, on their feet, experiencing the wilderness. I can't imagine them wanting to do things that would violate the wilderness," said Scott Jurek, an ultramarathoner from Colorado who last month completed the trail in a record time of 46 days, eight hours.
After celebrating with a bottle of champagne at Katahdin's summit, Jurek received citations for consuming alcohol, hiking with a large group and littering. He


argued that the citations were unfair and that Baxter officials were using him to send a message to problem hikers.

He is not only a ultra runner but a whiner as well.