Ice Axe ...

[Cobble]

I know everyone says carry them...then they said that they never had to use theirs...but they were glad they had them "just in case."

After some years on the trail, I learned of the many stupid things people carry "just in case." So my question is why is the ice axe different? I sense past hikers do believe it is different than pepper spray in case of bears, different than a snake kit, different than an emergency blanket, etc.

Does not carrying an ice axe make sense during medium to low snow years? Please speak from experiences and experiences of others you know and kindly refrain from "cover thy butte" positions.

[Another Kevin]

I can't speak about the Sierra. I carry one in winter in Upstate New York and Northern New England, and use it. I have the 12-point strap-on crampons to go with it, too.

I can remember asking Malto about it around a campfire. If I recall correctly, he said he didn't bring one on his thru, but had moments when he wished he had one. He survived, so I suppose he didn't need one. Malto, am I remembering accurately?

[RockDoc]

Go without. Then if you come to a steep snow field you can either turn around or risk your life.
Personally sliding down a steep chute to smash into rocks below sounds like a bad way to go.

[Cobble]

I figure if not too icey or too steep a trekking pole should work for self arrest in a pinch.(certainly not as good as an axe admittedly and probably will screw up the pole) Would certainly miss the axe for cutting steps, but traffic on the PCT next year will probably be pretty heavy.

[Dogwood]

Don't make the mistake of assuming low or med snow yrs means know snow travel for a PCT thru.

It's more complex in my mind. I think it a mistake to make definitive absolute statements on what all people should be doing because individuality exists among skillsets, gear/kits/shoes, comfortability with snow travel, etc.

Even though I take UL hiking approaches having simplicity in my kits and question all gear choices I can't definitively say that I would NEVER carry any of those "useless" items you list. Although, based on my mostly ignorance on the issue there is some heated debates on whether snake bite kits help or do more harm than good. I've never carried a snake bite kit but I've taken Wilderness First Aid courses knowing other techniques to apply/consider in event of N America not in the most remotest country venomous snake bite where indeed it was a "wet bite." It could be, like the ice axe, emergency blanket, snake bite kit, etc being informed how and when to use these items is more critical than simply having them on hand.

[Dogwood]

Should have added I have made myself aware of common situations that often lead to getting bitten by snakes, learn the venomous/dangerous snakes/animals where I'm hiking, and have made personal risk assessments on the risks posed.

[Ktaadn]

For those of you that do carry an ice ax, how much time do you spend practicing self-arrest before going out?

[garlic08]

I sent my ice axe home half way through the Sierra, when we hiked out at Kearsarge Pass. Every one of the snowfields I remember crossing on the PCT would have been easy to self-arrest on using trekking poles, feet, and/or elbows. Or falling would have been a, "Damn, now I have to climb back up again" event rather than life-endangering. And we timed our major climbs with sun exposure so we never had dangerous ice to cross.

But my wife and several others we were hiking with kept theirs. My experience and my skills and my comfort level were different than many others'. I didn't bring it on the CDT either. I use it enough on day hikes around home.

It does make a fantastic latrine tool!

[Another Kevin]

For those of you that do carry an ice ax, how much time do you spend practicing self-arrest before going out?

One of the nature preserves near me has a slide from a hurricane a few years ago that's really safe - it runs out into a broad, flat creek bed. I try to get in there near the start of each season and at least run through the drill of 'feet first face down', 'feet first face up', 'head first face down', 'head first face up,' to make sure that my muscles remember how to do it.

I'd most likely do more rigourous practice if I were planning to go to conditions that really need the ice axe. Around here, there's some debate whether the 'hiking' trails actually require ice axe and crampons, or whether Microspikes and poles are enough. I like having the ice axe for glissades, anyway, and for breaking out the water source so that I don't have to melt snow.

[nsherry61]

For those of you that do carry an ice ax, how much time do you spend practicing self-arrest before going out?

Ah, the crux of the issue! If you haven't spent time practicing, don't waste your time and energy carrying one. Having an ice ax does not make you safer than not having one. Having one AND knowing how to use it, AND having practiced with it substantially can save your life in steep alpine terrain.

I would argue that anyone suggesting that a trekking pole has any level of usefulness in self-arresting has probably never taking a sliding fall and tried to self arrest with a trekking pole. If conditions are mild enough that you can self arrest with a trekking pole, you probably don't need to self arrest in the first place.

When traveling on steep ice and snow:
1) Trekking poles and micro-spikes provide a tremendous amount of stability, significantly reducing the likelihood of a fall. And, if you don't fall, you don't need an ice ax.
2) If you get yourself into a situation where you do fall, and it is steep and/or icy enough that you can't control your decent with your feet/heals nothing short of an ice ax in practiced hands is going to do you much good!!!
3) An ice ax used correctly is more secure on steep snow and ice than trekking poles.
4) Using an ice ax is much slower than using trekking poles if trekking poles provide adequate stability.

I've never carried an ice ax while backpacking, and I have not yet encountered a trail condition where I felt I needed more than my micro-spikes and trekking poles. However, I am also a lot cockier and more "sure footed", and more comfortable in extreme terrain than most other people I backpack with. The confidence of a well placed ice ax shaft into an ice/snow field as you walk along an extremely exposed section of trail may enable you to keep going when otherwise you may not.

YMMV

P.S. Ice axes do look very cool hanging on the back of a backpack. So, maybe that is reason enough to carry one.

[aniday]

Ah, the crux of the issue! If you haven't spent time practicing, don't waste your time and energy carrying one. Having an ice ax does not make you safer than not having one. Having one AND knowing how to use it, AND having practiced with it substantially can save your life in steep alpine terrain.

I would argue that anyone suggesting that a trekking pole has any level of usefulness in self-arresting has probably never taking a sliding fall and tried to self arrest with a trekking pole. If conditions are mild enough that you can self arrest with a trekking pole, you probably don't need to self arrest in the first place.

When traveling on steep ice and snow:
1) Trekking poles and micro-spikes provide a tremendous amount of stability, significantly reducing the likelihood of a fall. And, if you don't fall, you don't need an ice ax.
2) If you get yourself into a situation where you do fall, and it is steep and/or icy enough that you can't control your decent with your feet/heals nothing short of an ice ax in practiced hands is going to do you much good!!!
3) An ice ax used correctly is more secure on steep snow and ice than trekking poles.
4) Using an ice ax is much slower than using trekking poles if trekking poles provide adequate stability.

I've never carried an ice ax while backpacking, and I have not yet encountered a trail condition where I felt I needed more than my micro-spikes and trekking poles. However, I am also a lot cockier and more "sure footed", and more comfortable in extreme terrain than most other people I backpack with. The confidence of a well placed ice ax shaft into an ice/snow field as you walk along an extremely exposed section of trail may enable you to keep going when otherwise you may not.

YMMV

P.S. Ice axes do look very cool hanging on the back of a backpack. So, maybe that is reason enough to carry one.

Why bring an ice axe if it's going to stay on your pack?

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[MuddyWaters]

Black diamond whippet pole. Snow basket on other pole. Crampons too if not sun softened.
BDOR.jpg

[Coffee]

I carried a Whippet this spring on the PCT over the high passes and was glad to have it, especially on the north side of Glen Pass where the trail traverses a steep snow field with a long run out. I had crampons as well. I was still nervous. I also used it on a Whitney attempt (got within a mile of summit) and descending Shepherd pass after bailing on Forester due to too much snow.

Take what I say with a grain of salt .... I'm a risk averse person and perhaps more prone to caution than most people. Very few hikers carried self arrest tools of any type and I think I was the only person I met with crampons although several had micro spikes.

[Colter]

I know everyone says carry them...then they said that they never had to use theirs...but they were glad they had them "just in case."

After some years on the trail, I learned of the many stupid things people carry "just in case." So my question is why is the ice axe different? I sense past hikers do believe it is different than pepper spray in case of bears, different than a snake kit, different than an emergency blanket, etc.

Does not carrying an ice axe make sense during medium to low snow years? Please speak from experiences and experiences of others you know and kindly refrain from "cover thy butte" positions.

People are often very bad at risk assessment. In the outdoors, falling is usually a much, much greater threat than bears yet it's bears that get talked about at least ten times as much. It doesn't make sense.

With that in mind carrying an ice axe is not comparable to carrying bear spray on the PCT. Falling is the greatest threat to PCT thru-hikers. I ran into plenty of places where a bad slip could have ended my hike with a serious injury. There are places where, if you're not scared crossing a slope without an ice axe, you should be.

I carried an ice axe on the PCT, and I would again on a typical year. An ice axe is something I tend to use more to prevent a serious fall than for actual self arrests, which I've practiced.

[colorado_rob]

Why bring an ice axe if it's going to stay on your pack?

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No reason whatsoever, except the cool factor.....

But why on earth would an ice axe stay on your pack if you're crossing or climbing or descending a steep snowfield??????? It wouldn't, of course, unless you were incredibly lazy. My 70cmCamp ice axe weighs 9 ounces, and yes, I practice with it nearly every year, though I think I have the arrest procedures pretty down pat after 40 years of using them.

[Spirit Walker]

I used an ice axe on both the CDT and PCT. I needed it to self-arrest a couple of times in Montana. On the PCT I never fell, but the ice axe made a long controlled slide down Forrester into a very fun descent. Some of my friends on the PCT were very lucky to have ice axes in hand when they fell.

Mostly I used the ice axe to prevent falls. On any steep sidehill, I would dig the point into the snow before advancing. It was slow going, but safe. I was ahead of the Kick-off hordes, so the trail was not a deep rut as it became a week or two later. Read Cindy Ross' account of her fall at Sonora Pass and you'll be happy to carry an ice axe.

[Coffee]

This is taken a short distance down the north side of Glen Pass looking up toward the pass on June 7 this year. You can see that there is a traverse above a steep section with a long run-out. When I was there that run out was broken by rocks about half way down. With heavier snow cover, the run out would be a lot longer. There was a fairly deep trench created by other hikers when I crossed. I don't know - it was scary to me. I was glad to have the whippet. In a higher snow year I think that Glen would be downright scary.


DSC07749.jpg

[Dogwood]

I know everyone says carry them...then they said that they never had to use theirs...but they were glad they had them "just in case."

I don't know where you are getting this from. All those IN THE KNOW, those who are well experienced with PCT conditions over MANY seasons and varying conditions, that I know have not said this.

This is a topic that comes up every freakin yr with new PCTers who always assume they have to get a definitive answer on what they should be doing usually well in advance of the time most optimal for making the Ice Axe Go or No Go decision.

I will strongly reiterate what has been advised. YES, PRACTICE self arrest BEFORE you most need to!

[lonehiker]

Personal experience (early June 2015):
I crossed the passes in question this year using only trekking poles with snow baskets. Went slow and made sure of my footing (most went much faster than I did). Would have preferred to have had micro spikes. If I ever hike this section again I will definitely take micro spikes. Given the same conditions I would not take an ice axe. I watched a rescue helicopter fly to a pass I had crossed earlier in the day. Learned later that a girl from Switzerland had fallen and broke 3 vertebrae in neck (not confirmed). Unsure of exact details so don't know if using micro spikes/ice axe would have prevented the incident.

Observations:
Did not see anyone actually using an ice axe although I did see a few on packs. I know that some that summited Whitney did use them.
Saw a handful of people use micro spikes.

Last thought:
Most thru-hikers are more interested in mileage than timing ascents/descents. So, you will probably see conditions ranging from icy, to sticky, to soft (often times there is a very small window for these conditions). That being said, the passes are generally spaced such that you can tackle one fairly early in the day then drop down to camp and then cross another the next day etc. Plan according to your risk tolerance.

One last thought (I promise):
If you carry a piece of gear i.e. micro spikes/ice axe, use it. Don't allow peer pressure to prevent you from using that item. I see this especially among younger hikers. Although the grey hairs are not immune to it either. I know, I received, then mailed my spikes home at Kennedy Meadow......

[Water Rat]

For those of you that do carry an ice ax, how much time do you spend practicing self-arrest before going out?

There is no "one answer" to your question. Practice until you can reliably and efficiently use the equipment in an emergency situation. Then, refresh your skills before each season. The ice ax will only be useful to you if you can properly use it.