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  1. #1
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    Default GNP Trail Closures

    Lots of fires going on. Everything in, around, and leading into and out of Two Medicine is closed.

    http://www.nps.gov/glac/upload/8-22-15-closures-web.pdf

    I went to a briefing about the Thompson Divide Complex fires last night in Essex. Among lots of other interesting information, they said that the Sheep Fire would normally have about 900 firefighters working it. It has 300. The only reason it has that many is that it threatens critical transportation infrastructure: US Highway 2, the BNSF main line, and a major natural gas pipeline. One member of the audience asked about suppression efforts at the Granite Fire. They said that, due to lack of manpower and resources, they're basically letting it burn.

    There are currently about 39,000 firefighters deployed in the Northwest. The strain on resources is so great that the two major commercial food suppliers in the area, FSA and Sysco, have cut them off--not enough supplies in the warehouses.

    The immediate weather forecast isn't good. There's a chance of dry lighting storms in a couple of days. No promise of a "season-ending event" for about a month. There was snow above 6000' last Friday, which was lovely.

    That said, there is still plenty of hiking in the Park. Lots of backcountry sites available since so many people have canceled plans to come here. Even the front-country campgrounds have plenty of spaces available. As of last night, the only two that were full were Many Glacier and Sprague Creek. In August, that's unheard of.

    It's a very interesting time to be in NW Montana.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
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  2. #2

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    Insane. If this keeps up, the entire west will be one charred mess.

    I can see why people are staying away. Which is a good thing. Reduces the risk of someone accidentally starting a fire or getting trapped in one, or just being in the way. I think the smoke alone from all the near-by fires would be enough to keep me away. Plus the fires are likely pushing all the wild life into areas which haven't yet caught on fire. Glad I visited a couple of years ago when things weren't so bad.
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  3. #3
    CDT - 2013, PCT - 2009, AT - 1300 miles done burger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Insane. If this keeps up, the entire west will be one charred mess.
    Welcome to our new future thanks to climate change.

    Maybe another reason that people are staying away from Glacier is terrible air quality? I'm assuming it's no better up there then it is here in Missoula where visibility has been less than 2 miles for weeks now. Why travel all the way up there and then seen no views? Better to come in another year.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    GNP posted an amazing photo from Mt. Oberlin today on FaceBook. Apparently there's some clear air somewhere around here, just now down here near the Thompson Complex fires.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
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  5. #5
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    Decent rains yesterday. Cooler weather predicted for the next few days. Rte. 2 has just re-opened to through traffic, following pilot cars. The evacuation order for Essex has been lifted--residents can return to the homes, with the provision that they may need to evacuate again, if the Sheep Fire kicks up.

    There are still horrendous fires in the Benchmark area, and around Heart Butte, on the Blackfeet Reservation.

    http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/state/27/

    Very large areas are closed to hiking and all backcountry use. There are many other fire restrictions in place--type of stoves you can use for backcountry camping; no driving off roads; no smoking outside paved/developed areas; and many more.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

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  6. #6
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    My nephew and I spent a good deal of time in the summer of 2008 trying to plan a hike around all the fires in California. Heck, we were OK with OR or WA as well. Not being fussy. Every time we'd pick a route there'd be a fire popping up somewhere nearby.

    We finally settled on a week's section beginning at Mammoth Lakes. Surprise, surprise. As we drove into Mammoth Lakes we could see fires along the mountainside. One of them had caused closure of a nearby campground, so all the motels in town were heavily booked.

    These fires aren't exactly a new thing, but seem to be getting worse over time.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    Naturally we've been talking amongst ourselves a lot recently about fires, the history, fire suppression techniques, forest management techniques, etc. I've learned a lot this summer from attending the briefings conducted by the Thompson-Divide Complex Incident Commander and his team.

    The historical fire that everything in this area is compared to is the 1910 fire in and around Wallace, Idaho. Huge destruction and loss of life.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910

    There's talk that this year's fire season will rival it.

    In any case, what I'm picking up on in the briefings is that fire-fighting priorities are set by the "values at risk," aka "values." Values at risk are expensive things and/or people that are in the path of the fire. The Sheep Fire is such a high priority because it threatens the BNSF main line, US Highway 2 (when it is closed, vehicles longer than 21' have to make a 330-mile detour), a major natural gas pipeline, and the community of Essex. In other words, we humans have built a lot of expensive structures in places that are difficult to defend against forest fires.

    It seems to me sort of like the situation with hurricanes. High winds and huge waves aren't a problem unless they are washing over a lot of houses and commercial buildings.

    It has been an interesting season, and will continue to be so for a few more weeks, until that "season-ending event" occurs. As far as the locals are concerned, the sooner the better. Bring on the winter!

    Hikers are going to have a tough time finishing the CDT NOBO this year. It's essentially shut from the Bob north, except for a few miles just south of the border.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta View Post
    Naturally we've been talking amongst ourselves a lot recently about fires, the history, fire suppression techniques, forest management techniques, etc. I've learned a lot this summer from attending the briefings conducted by the Thompson-Divide Complex Incident Commander and his team.

    The historical fire that everything in this area is compared to is the 1910 fire in and around Wallace, Idaho. Huge destruction and loss of life.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910

    There's talk that this year's fire season will rival it.

    In any case, what I'm picking up on in the briefings is that fire-fighting priorities are set by the "values at risk," aka "values." Values at risk are expensive things and/or people that are in the path of the fire. The Sheep Fire is such a high priority because it threatens the BNSF main line, US Highway 2 (when it is closed, vehicles longer than 21' have to make a 330-mile detour), a major natural gas pipeline, and the community of Essex. In other words, we humans have built a lot of expensive structures in places that are difficult to defend against forest fires.

    It seems to me sort of like the situation with hurricanes. High winds and huge waves aren't a problem unless they are washing over a lot of houses and commercial buildings.

    It has been an interesting season, and will continue to be so for a few more weeks, until that "season-ending event" occurs. As far as the locals are concerned, the sooner the better. Bring on the winter!

    Hikers are going to have a tough time finishing the CDT NOBO this year. It's essentially shut from the Bob north, except for a few miles just south of the border.
    I remember reading about that fire a few years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910

  9. #9

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    ...BTW, a couple interesting stories that claim that there is what's being called the Fire Industrial Complex and that this thing of forest firefighting is becoming big money maker, resulting in us fighting too many forest fires when we should just let them burn (unless, of course, it threatens life or property). http://www.salon.com/2013/06/21/we_d..._burn_partner/


    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ate-and-humans

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    How many fires don't threaten at least some life or property, though? This year, because there are so many fires raging at the same time, a lot of them are being left to do whatever. But even in this part of Montana, which is mostly National Park and National Forest, most fires threaten something eventually. The initial Thompson Fire (which was in a remote part of GNP) was pretty much let run from where it started towards the Divide, because if it crossed the Divide it would head towards Two Medicine. There are cabins, tiny hamlets, historic buildings, plus roads, utilities, and other things people want to protect dotted all over the place, even around here.

    I am staggered by the size and complexity of the Fire Industrial Complex. The manpower and expertise is amazing--the fire behavior analysts and incident commanders and operations directors and structure protection experts boggle my mind, not to mention the helicopter pilots and PhosChek mixers and smoke jumpers and Hot Shots and on and on. It's impressive to see this huge team work together. Expensive…oh, yeah. But the loss that would occur if the railway main line and the highway and gas line were destroyed would be greater.

    I'll leave you with a couple of pictures. The first one is retardant being dropped on the Sheep Fire. The second one is Sparky the Fire Train (owned by BNSF) parked in the yard in Essex.

    DSC_0139.jpgFullSizeRender.jpg
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

    Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta View Post
    How many fires don't threaten at least some life or property, though? This year, because there are so many fires raging at the same time, a lot of them are being left to do whatever. But even in this part of Montana, which is mostly National Park and National Forest, most fires threaten something eventually. The initial Thompson Fire (which was in a remote part of GNP) was pretty much let run from where it started towards the Divide, because if it crossed the Divide it would head towards Two Medicine. There are cabins, tiny hamlets, historic buildings, plus roads, utilities, and other things people want to protect dotted all over the place, even around here.

    I am staggered by the size and complexity of the Fire Industrial Complex. The manpower and expertise is amazing--the fire behavior analysts and incident commanders and operations directors and structure protection experts boggle my mind, not to mention the helicopter pilots and PhosChek mixers and smoke jumpers and Hot Shots and on and on. It's impressive to see this huge team work together. Expensive…oh, yeah. But the loss that would occur if the railway main line and the highway and gas line were destroyed would be greater.

    I'll leave you with a couple of pictures. The first one is retardant being dropped on the Sheep Fire. The second one is Sparky the Fire Train (owned by BNSF) parked in the yard in Essex.

    DSC_0139.jpgFullSizeRender.jpg
    That's a good question and I don't know the answer. Obviously, with the increase in population it's far more likely that a fire will make it to something. I think good arguments are made on both sides. It seems like you need more of a dual policy, such as when you're in a severe drought maybe you should adopt the policy of fighting, but other than that let it burn. But I don't have all the info needed to make a decision...

  12. #12
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    The Yellowstone fires were stopped by 3 inches of snow in September. Praying that something like that happens soon.

    Good luck Marta! Be safe.

    Wayne
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  13. #13
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    We're hoping for an early winter. Yay, September! It should start snowing soon.

    Thanks for the good wishes. The Sheep Fire is looking good right now. Down to the west of the Bob, though, is looking worse and worse. A new fire broke out near Choteau today. Hoping the forecasted rains will come this week.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

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  14. #14
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    Things are looking up! The rains started yesterday, and predicted to last for several days. A lot of the fire-fighting crews and equipment packed up and left Essex yesterday.

    http://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/news/u...5-closures.pdf

    The number of closed trails in GNP have been reduced quite a bit. You can hike in and out of East Glacier and Two Medicine now. The trail on the south shore of St. Mary Lake is still closed, but the GTTS Rd. is open, so you can get around it.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

    Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover

  15. #15

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    With much agony i canceled my Glacier trip this year. was supposed to be on trail from 8-29 though 9-4. It was incredibly hard to cancel but man, if you can't see those incredible views it would be a really big bummer. will try the lottery again next year....

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    We've had more than an inch of rain in the last 48 hours, as well as rain the previous two days before that. Fire danger is greatly reduced.

    My particular concern--the Thompson Divide Complex fires--is just being monitored, with no further suppression efforts going on.

    The GNP trail closures are the same as they were a couple of days ago, though.

    http://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/news/u...5-closures.pdf

    The really fun news is that the GTTS Rd. is closed between Big Bend and Jackson Glacier Overlook because of SNOW!
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

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  17. #17
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    I reckon a bunch of NOBO CDT hikers didn't make it north of Lincoln. Or they all flipped past Colorado early and they are all enjoying the rain in New Mexico.
    You never know what you will get until you get it. Like what you get.

    Wayne


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  18. #18
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    The 3d Annual CDT Hiker Hoopla is Sept. 18th at the Summit Mountain Lodge in Marias Pass. It'll be interesting to see how various hikers have dealt with the fires and closures.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

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  19. #19
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    This past weekend I hiked from Jackson Glacier Overlook to Lake McDonald (through Gunsight and Lincoln Passes), which took me past the intersection with the closed trails around St. Mary Lake. Reynolds Campsite is still closed, but it was not burned up. I assume it will reopen next year.

    Saturday, Sunday, and Monday were glorious--perfect hiking weather. On Tuesday the weather turned and it was sleeting and snowing in Logan Pass and above. The fire situation is greatly improved, but they won't truly be out until the heavy snows fall. Hopefully that won't be long.

    Every wooly bear caterpillar I've seen this year has been solid black--no hint of orange stripes. I saw another dozen or so of them while I was hiking this weekend--all solid black. I've been told folklore says that means a hard winter. (Whatever "hard" means--I hope that means a lot of snow.) I assume it probably occurs in reaction to the weather or vegetation conditions that occurred during the summer. An interesting question.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

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  20. #20
    Super Moderator Marta's Avatar
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    I talked to a few CDT NOBOs at the Hiker Hoopla at Summit House Friday night. The only trail closures impacting their hikes now is the section around St. Mary Lake. No problems in the Bob.
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

    Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover

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