Appalachian Trail record-setter says Baxter State Park officials 'vilifying' him - Pr

[Another Kevin]

One thing interesting about such observations regarding thru hikers is that the foundation is not on protecting the natural ecosystem of Katahdin, but rather an arbitrary aesthetic.

Nobody is suggesting that thru hikers are adversely disrupting the Bicknell Thrush, or damaging the rare Potantilla plant.

In fact, my guess is that the park managers fully realize that the developed campgrounds at ponds around the park have an impact on wildlife that eclipses that of thru hikers by an order of magnitude.

This is not to minimize the importance of protecting a visual aesthetic at Baxter peak-- but just put it in context.

Another thing to put in context is how the park has accommodated changes in demand in the past-- the bunkhouses built in Roari Brook being just one example-- or the drive-in car campgrounds as another.

Bottom line is that a narrative is being created that thru hikers are the problem, and that the mountain is in jeopardy because of them. And that is just not right-- not even close.

Without minimizing the importance of operational "middle management" issues regarding thru hiker impact, behavior and ways to improve things, the larger narrative should not be accepted without question. At least not at the "executive level" and not in public discourse either.

In another thread, egilbe posts an image that appears to show a great number of people treading, sitting and lying on alpine vegetation. It does not have sufficient resolution for me to see whether cinquefoil is among the plants being damaged. If, as is claimed, A-T users are camping unlawfully away from established sites, it would not astonish me that they should disturb Bicknell's Thrush nest sites, except for the bird's preference for dense balsam-and-spruce thickets that offer few good sites to camp. Protection of Bicknell's Thrush is the ostensible reason that New York State bans camping above 3500 feet elevation from March to December. My understanding is that acid rain, the spruce budworm, and the retreat of the subalpine forest in the face of climate change are far greater threats than human incursion. In any case, I account myself fortunate to have heard its weird fluting on the very mountain where Eugene Bicknell discovered it.

The narrative in question is being advanced by the appointed representatives of the landowners. Those challenging it are would-be interlopers, at best tolerated trespassers, surely no longer welcome guests. Who may be presumed to have better information about the needs of the land? Who may be presumed to be better able to safeguard its best interests? Those entrusted with its care by the people of Maine, its owners, or those who simply are arguing for the unearned privilege of waltzing in unnanounced and doing more or less as they please?

The story may be a false one, but the burden of proof on those who would challenge it is surely very heavy.

[BirdBrain]

Be that as it may, Mr Bissell has stated explicitly that even if our behaviour were exemplary, we would still be too numerous. I believe him more than I believe you. He's the director of the park.

I am hoping for another reality. I cannot speak for other Mainer, but I wish there was a way for the AT to still include the greatest mountain. If it is an immutable fact that the growing numbers in and of themselves is enough to create an unsolvable roadblock, then all efforts are a waste of time. I am not ready to accept that reality.

[Chair-man]

Thank God someone started a new thread on Jurek. I was beginning to get worried.

[TJ aka Teej]

I would not be surprised to read an announcement after the season from the BSPA of an alternate operation plan the for Birches and an end to thru-hiker-centric Park activity. The Birches will be a walk-in site for all users. ATers wishing to stay inside the Park will have to make advance reservations through HQ in Millinocket just like the general public. A change at KSC would see removal of the day-packs and AT register, and the end of ATC connected data collection and the handing out ATC 2000 miler paperwork.
Baxter Peak will remain the terminus.
Anyone suggesting that the Park needs to do more for ATers doesn't understand the situation.

[fiddlehead]

Well, according to Scott's statements, they did exactly what the authorities told them. They hiked up in a group size within the limit (which was apparently confirmed by a ranger), the guy who brought the champagne asked a ranger if it was OK and was told that yes, it's OK, as long as he keeps it away from children, and the "littering" charge for spraying champagne is downright laughable. Still, Scott stated that he accepts full responsibility and will pay any fines that he has to pay.
But of course, we wouldn't believe anything that Scott says, would we now? People had obviously made up their mind about Scott and his FKT attempt long before he got to BSP.

That's pretty much how I see it also.
Then the ranger lied and somewhere said that he gave the citations at the summit.
Until he saw the pictures of them being presented at a picnic table.
Changed his tune after that.
Who is lying here?
Time for a new head ranger up at Baxter.
One that talks AFTER he knows the facts.
I don't see that Scott did anything wrong.
He (or someone in his group) asked if they could do what they got cited for.
Bunch of BS.

[Driver8]

Yes, that would be nice.

All one has to do at BSP is follow the rules. If you can't, just don't go into the park. That simple. If you get caught not following them, don't whine about the ticket. Rules are clear, enforcement actions can be the result. Deal with it straight up.

Sorry, AT Traveler, but if a ranger OKs your party size at KSC you should't then get cited because other people than those 12 lingered at the summit, people you don't even know, most of them, to celebrate with you. That's abuse of authority. You ok with that?

Likewise, it's piling on to give him a ticket for alcohol at the summit when the ranger OK'd his friend bringing it and he didn't even know about it. He violated the rule, but the park employees at the summit didn't say anything to stop it - they were too busy cheering him on with everyone else - that's all there to be seen in the videos on Runner's World's site. Does that not bother you?

I'm all for abiding by reasonable rules and their reasonable and fair enforcement. And I think these rules are all reasonable. But are you saying the way Baxter handled this has caused you no concern? To give the ok to something and then to ticket it is pretty bush league, as I see it.

[Driver8]

They were notified of what was expected of them. They chose to ignore the rules ...

Sorry, squeezebox, your version is not in accord with well-documented facts. The citations were issued to Scott at the base of the mountain after he finished his hike - Scott's wife took photos documenting this. According to BSP officials, BSP employees were at the summit when Scott arrived. That event is recorded on video posted at Runner's World's website. Scott says his party size of 12 was OK'd. The other 30 or so people at the summit when he finished his thru were not part of that party, and it's asinine to cite him for their applauding him. His friend Aron Ralston asked about bringing the champagne, and the rangers ok'd it, evidently without Scott's knowledge.

What gets me is that people judge Scott harshly here, failing to keep any sense of his humanity in mind. The dude was exhausted, wobbling his way to the summit - check out the videos. He was going on like 10 hours sleep in four days. He probably didn't know his left from his right. He makes the summit. He's, thank god, done! Exhilarated. Relieved. People are cheering. OMG he can sit for a bit and move without time pressure. His buddy offers him champagne as people cheer. Guarantee you he didn't know the rule banning hooch at the summit. (When did he have time to think about that? True, his crew could've served him better there, but they were just trying to get the man to the summit alive before 5:16 pm. Pretty big job.) So what does he do? What would almost anyone do? He took a swig, sprayed some and took a seat.

I don't even drink. Have in the past, but diabetes precludes it for me now. I don't love America's alcohol culture. What he did is not for me. But to judge him harshly on it, as I see it, is utterly inhumane, merciless and unworthy. Baxter would've been much smarter to reach out to him, work with him to get a sheepish apology and to enlist his support for the park and its missions, rather than, in a petty, bushleague, officious manner to call him out and castigate him. Lose-lose when win-win was right there to be had. Too bad for them.

[Driver8]

They made an example out of him. Fair or not, that's the way it is. Whether he's a nice guy or "pompous athlete", he got nailed because what he was doing was high profile and would impact the park one way or another.

We're all armchair quarterbacking here, but as a professional he should have just said "Hey, I'm sorry, wont happen again, future hikers please respect our parks" and been done with it. Declined any further interviews until it all blew over.

I agree with this. Scott would be well-served to pay the fine, assuming he's been fined, and move on.

[Fredt4]

Commercial events and their personnel some and do get extra attention when they break the rules in our national & state parks, as they should.

[squeezebox]

There is enough blame on everyone to pass around, even loud mouthed arm chairs like myself. What's fair is not the question. Even lone wolf agrees that BSP very much appears to want to throw out the AT. Almost all of us seem to want to keep Katadin as the north terminus, (except just kevin). So the real issue is how do we as AT keep Katadin?
Futher alcohol in the park and particularly on Katadin will devistate the chances, along with the other issues of loud parties, illegal camping, illegal dogs, lied about service dogs, illegal guests, and the full list of other issues.
Forget what is fair or not. BSP is saying they are maxed out, best to believe them.
All hikers need to follow all rules, and to go even further by asking what else can we do to fix this problem. It's up to us to fix this it's not gonna come from BSP.

[Driver8]

There is enough blame on everyone to pass around, even loud mouthed arm chairs like myself. What's fair is not the question. Even lone wolf agrees that BSP very much appears to want to throw out the AT. Almost all of us seem to want to keep Katadin as the north terminus, (except just kevin). So the real issue is how do we as AT keep Katadin?
Futher alcohol in the park and particularly on Katadin will devistate the chances, along with the other issues of loud parties, illegal camping, illegal dogs, lied about service dogs, illegal guests, and the full list of other issues.
Forget what is fair or not. BSP is saying they are maxed out, best to believe them.
All hikers need to follow all rules, and to go even further by asking what else can we do to fix this problem. It's up to us to fix this it's not gonna come from BSP.

Baxter's not throwing the A T out, squeezebox, as has been noted here after the recent powwow among Appalachian Trail powers that be.

As to the merits of how Baxter handled Scott Jurek's situation, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm more concerned with your perpetuating false information as though it were true. Contrary to your assertion, Scott and company were not notified by the Rangers of the rules, they were told in advance by the rangers that their conduct was okay. Park employees at the summit evidently joined in applauding and celebrating Scott's achievement, As I'm sure you would have had you been there, And as I certainly would have had I've been there. What he did was awesome and worthy of celebration. But no, Baxter employees did not notify Scott and company and then fairly enforce the rules. It was more of a bait and switch which, had it been done to you, would likely have made you furious as it would any reasonable person. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

If the truth about basic facts doesn't concern you, with due respect I'm not likely to concern myself with your posts for long. You and others blow this trumpet about Baxter kicking out the AT, which is not happening anytime soon, so how about we stop pretending that that's what this about.

[Dogwood]

Finally, he fired back at Bissell’s suggestion that he brought a corporate event to Baxter Peak.

“I happen to be a professional athlete and I am supported by sponsors, but it was not ‘an event,’ ” Jurek said. “I didn’t have a finish line … and what I was doing was like any other thru-hiker. I just happened to be a professional athlete who had a following and sponsors.”




REALLY? What BS! Is he kidding? If, Scott Jurek actually does believe this, and he's not just BSing, stating something in haste, telling us what he thinks we want to hear, or simply covering his arse, it aptly demonstrates how out of touch and ignorant he is, and possibly some others attempting supported FKTs are, of what a AT thru-hike can be, what 98% of other AT thru-hikers commonly experience or do, what the AT community and its managing partners are accustomed, and what the hell an "event" is! The main thing that Scott shared in common with the vast majority of successful AT thru-hikers is they all started at one terminus and finished at the other terminus. Beyond that the dissimilarities start to overshadow the similarities.

Sure, all or even a majority of AT thru hikers thru hike the AT in supported fashion, while seeking a fastest time record under exceedingly competitive foot race conditions, after publicly announcing their intentions, knowing they're publicly being tracked via GPS and by other means, while making that tracking data and their location known via the media/internet, know their journeys are being filmed by a documentary film crew, sleep in a van most nights/sleeping periods that has been customized for this "event", only carry some snacks and a camelback/water bottle, are paid well known professional athletes that expressly have advertised and marketed their many racing accomplishments and racing resumes, have and openly publicly display sponsorships, ......etc.

Sure, sounds like the makings of an "EVENT" to me! Event(def) - an occurrence of some importance or special significance, an important happening, a special occasion. Hmmm?

How many entire nights in a AT lean-to or hostel, tent, hammock, or under a tarp he erected himself, after carrying it all day, did he spend? Did he ever hitch or pay a taxi or shuttle to go into a town to personally buy and pack his own resupplies or pick up a mailed resupply package? Did he carry a backpack even the most rudimentary kit? Did he ever wash his own clothing during all those days? Did he ever cook/warm his own meals with his own cookware eating it with a utensil he carried 2200 miles? Did he ever treat his water? or did he have someone else do that for him too? Did he drink from on trail water sources? How much time did he sit upon a rock outcropping or at waterfall by himself contemplating the beauty all around him being free from any anxious feelings that he HAD TO BE somewhere else doing something else? or spend unstressed time contemplating the age of a ancient tree looking up into its aged branches? do a cloud survey? how many pictures did he take personally? did he write in trail journals regularly? Did he ever swim on trail? pet a wild pony? stop to wonder if what he was attempting to not step in was black bear or raccoon shart?, learn to identify any previously unknown to him birds, plants, wildlife? .............etc?

Gee, as much as some of us admire and respect so much what Scott Jurek does being inspired to reach deeper and higher through his health, dietary, and competitive efforts and heartily congratulate him on his AT thru journey He NEEDS TO GET HONEST WITH THE REALITY OF HIS FKT!

What I want to know: 1) did Scott Jurek let the AT into his heart and soul? or was it simply just another race track course to highlight himself? 2) what contribution did he specifically make to the AT and the AT community leaving it a better place for others?

[BirdBrain]

What I want to know: 1) did Scott Jurek let the AT into his heart and soul? or was it simply just another race track course to highlight himself? 2) what contribution did he specifically make to the AT and the AT community leaving it a better place for others?

It is possible for a person doing what he did to have positive answers to your questions. The answers to those questions posed to him are obvious. I don't think he gives a rats arse about any part of the AT or the community at large. It is very telling who is defending him (including his sponsors). I am learning a great deal about a lot of people from this discussion.

[jersey joe]

Facts might help inform your opinion on this issue.

Attached below are the most recent records (published last fall for 2013) for both warnings and citations:

Attachment 31567

Attachment 31568

Something in this record jumped out at me.
Someone was cited for having a child under 6 above tree line?
Is this really a rule?

[Pedaling Fool]

Back from getting the last 15 of the 48 4000' hills of NH. I had hoped this had died down. There is a reason for this "selective" enforcement. It is not that complicate. It has nothing to do with us evil Mainers hating people that are not Mainers. It has nothing to do with a desire to pick and choose. There is an obvious detail that is clear to those willing to see it. This was a high profile event that was well advertised. The world was about to see stills and video from Baxter Peak of a crowd cheering as a less than obscure person sprayed booze on the peak. How could Baxter not "select" this event to go public. BSP does not have the resources to get every infraction. Quite frankly, BSP does not need resources dedicated for most people that visit that peak. There is a crowd that requires special attention. That crowd strains BSP's abilities to enforce rules. These things should be self evident. We could help. Instead, some act confused. This whole situation is immensely frustrating. I cannot recall a time in my life where I made a serious comment about another state or people that categorized that state or people in derogatory terms. I see this often during the discussion of this subject. I cannot imagine saying (pick the state or people) are elitists or bigots or stuck up or on and on. We are not jerks en masse up here. I am going to continue to assume that those that make such blanket statements do not represent the fine people of the states they live in. I could assume the opposite if I were to act in kind. Please guys. Think for a minute. There is a reason BSP has done what they have done. It is as simple as trying to combat the public event that sends the wrong message. The timing was bad. It came at a time of rising friction. It is not because Mainers are evil.

Drama Queen

[Offshore]

What gets me is that people judge Scott harshly here, failing to keep any sense of his humanity in mind. The dude was exhausted, wobbling his way to the summit - check out the videos. He was going on like 10 hours sleep in four days. He probably didn't know his left from his right. He makes the summit. He's, thank god, done! Exhilarated. Relieved. People are cheering. OMG he can sit for a bit and move without time pressure. His buddy offers him champagne as people cheer. Guarantee you he didn't know the rule banning hooch at the summit. (When did he have time to think about that? True, his crew could've served him better there, but they were just trying to get the man to the summit alive before 5:16 pm. Pretty big job.) So what does he do? What would almost anyone do? He took a swig, sprayed some and took a seat.

Sorry Driver8, Jurek did this FKT attempt for his own glory, so the exhaustion, wobbliness, and lack of sleep were solely for the benefit of Jurek and his sponsors (ultimately benefitting himself). By no stretch of the imagination was this event done in the spirit of advancing some greater good for all humanity - so please stop with the canonization spin already. And yes, an advance team should have know better and should have communicated to him, but its still his event. With the glory comes the responsibility...

[John B]

Sorry Driver8, Jurek did this FKT attempt for his own glory, so the exhaustion, wobbliness, and lack of sleep were solely for the benefit of Jurek and his sponsors (ultimately benefitting himself). By no stretch of the imagination was this event done in the spirit of advancing some greater good for all humanity - so please stop with the canonization spin already. And yes, an advance team should have know better and should have communicated to him, but its still his event. With the glory comes the responsibility...

I guess that would also apply to JPD and her Blueridge Hiking Company, book, and other business endeavors; for that matter, and with the exception of sponsors and financial benefit, it would seem to hold true for all hikers. I mean, when I hike, I'm not trying to advance humanity's greater good. Are you?

[lemon b]

Kinda agree with David (LW) that he was singled out. However, when one draws that much attention to himself he makes a perfect target to the Park Rangers to get the word out to many many people that rules will be enforced. Also agree with many that perhaps the AT should just end at The West Branch. The care of the Mountain is more important than the ego of we hikers.

[Jake2c]

Quite a few opinions. Since I don't know all the facts, my thoughts are more along the line that I hope this (set a record for the AT) does not become more mainstream. I think AT hikers, including myself, put enough wear and tear on the environment. If setting a record becomes a popular goal, and it very well might now, then the trail is in danger of not only changing, but of people not wanting to donate or sell land to add to it as the years go by. I am thinking of things like the Boston Marathon. I used to be a runner way back when I was younger and the Boston Marathon was a good race. But then it became a status symbol and one of the important races that drew in world class athletes. Now the numbers are huge and the city comes basically to a dead halt for the race. It may be best that we just end any recognition for the fastest time and hope that without the recognition, the desire will go away? On the other hand, even as I write this I know that would not be realistic.

[lemon b]

Well said Jake.