Waist Belts on Packs - Necessary or Extra Weight?

[g00gle]

So, I'm looking at a DIY pack ( http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Ba...-Kit/index.htm ) and the standard model of kit comes with no waist belt. Further, they seem to go out of their way to explain why waist belts are a waste on trails. They do say that if they are Alpining, etc., they prefer waist belts for that type of activity. But they say it restricts movement and adds unnecessary weight on the trail.

Now, discussing this with my wife, she was sort of impressed with the idea of no waist belt. I promptly corrected her (because I'm not very smart and) because waist belts are just necessary for distributing weight, adjusting stress points while wearing a pack long distances, etc. But it occurred to me that I've always looked for good-fitting belts on my packs cause that's all I've ever known to do.

Now I'm wondering if the darn things really are even necessary...?

[pauly_j]

A majority of the weight of your pack should sit on your hips (ie through the waist belt). I wouldn't want 30lbs hanging exclusively on my shoulders all day.

[Offshore]

I think they are making that claim to differentiate themselves (along with the whole DIY thing) and neither makes sense. They say a hip belt is unnecessary for "light to moderate loads" but really don't put it in terms of actual weights. I agree the a hip belt is not needed for light loads that might be carried in daypacks. A lot of 18 - 24 L daypacks have waist belts that have no padding and sit above your hips so seem to serve more for stabilization rather than weight-bearing. A lot of daypacks in that range are now coming with removable waist belts, too. For a heavier day pack and certainly a backpacking pack, I would look for other weight saving strategies before I'd be foolish enough to go without a hip belt. The majority of a pack's weight is borne on your hips via a hip belt. The shoulder straps carry a minority of the weight and really serve to keep the pack close to your body and to stabilize the load. As far as the whole sew it yourself option, I'm willing to pay more to have a piece of gear as important as my pack professionally sewn by skilled people using appropriate equipment.

[garlic08]

I'd say it depends on the weight carried in the pack and maybe your upper body shape and strength. It's probably way different for men vs women in general, too. I routinely cut waist belts off day packs. But I recently bought a Gossamer Gear backpack with an optional waist belt because I often load that up with more than 20 pounds on a long food or water carry and I don't like carrying that weight all day on my shoulders. I've tried it--I've had waist belts fail and buckles break. But I've seen plenty of hikers do that comfortably. I'm sure everyone has a different threshold.

[bigcranky]

There's no hip belt because that pack was designed by the dean of the original ultralighters and is designed to carry 15, maybe 20 pounds, tops. If you want the pack you probably ought to get his books, too, as the whole thing works as a system.


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[colorado_rob]

Yep, 15 pounds total, comfy w/o hip belt. 20? Marginal. Over 20? Fagedaboudid.

One thing I've noticed after about 45 years of backpacking is that weight carried on a hip belt is less of a burden (more comfortable) than weight carried in the actual pack. So one reason I like using a hip belt is that some packs, like the ULA line, have huge hip belt pockets. I can put over a pound of food gear in these pockets, like my full day's worth of trail food in one, lots of often-used stuff in the other (sunscreen, bug repellant, sunglasses, TP and more). This reduces the pack weight "hanging" off my back accordingly. so basically, the weight of the hip belt system is well worth it going what I call "near-UL" (not quite UL).

[Malto]

Not only do I believe in using a hipbelt but I am a huge fan of using that hipbelt to transfer a lot of weight out of my pack especially water. I added a total of six pouches to my MLD Burn that can hold up to 4 QT of water and misc other things. this really makes a huge difference in the comfort of a pack. So yes, to a hipbelt even with an 8 lb base.

[Deadeye]

Try it for yourself and see.
The answer was apparent in minutes for me
The belt is not just a belly holder
It takes a lot of weight off your shoulder

[The Old Chief]

There were plenty of beltless packs on the AT in 2001 and 2002, mainly the Go-Lite Breeze. If sil-nylon or cuben had been around back then there would have been plenty more. I used a beltless homemade pack in 2003 extensively from New Jersey to Maine with no major problems. I have a thick upper body and maybe that's why it wasn't uncomfortable to have that weight on the shoulders. It takes some getting used to but it was nice to not have the restriction around the waist, you could sling the pack around to one shoulder and get access to it while walking, there was hardly any adjusting to worry about, and it was cool to walk with your shirt tail out all the time. I think Jardine's pack is very similar to the Go-lite Breeze so if it can be made cheaply I say try it out.

[CalebJ]

If the pack weight is below twenty pounds, I like having my legs free to do the work of moving my body and let the shoulders carry the load. Anything above that and the load needs to spread to the hips. My ZPacks Zero and the hydration pack I use for running both have webbing hip belts which serve to stabilize the load, but not actually carry any weight. Works well for me. On the other hand, the larger packs I use (Osprey Exos and Poco Plus) both have hip belts which work very well for heavier loads, particularly the Poco Plus. I wouldn't want to carry the 35-45 pounds of my son plus the pack and the bottles, diaper changing things, etc. without a very solid belt.

[Wil]

There were plenty of beltless packs on the AT in 2001 and 2002, mainly the Go-Lite Breeze. If sil-nylon or cuben had been around back then there would have been plenty more.... It takes some getting used to but it was nice to not have the restriction around the waist...I think Jardine's pack is very similar to the Go-lite Breeze so if it can be made cheaply I say try it out.

My Breeze has been my pack of choice since it came out. I've tried many newer ones since, with a waist belt, and some of them are wonderful but the laws of physics remain intact and the increase in complexity and loss of freedom is unacceptable to me. I think part of my issue with belts is my body is thickish around the middle and they have to be cinched too tight to avoid slippage.

Twenty pounds is about the upper limit for the Breeze though. For long trips where I absolutely need more food and a few other extras I add a Ribz front pack. I actually like the balance I get with the Ribz added, like it a lot, but it does add complexity and weight.

People on the trail swear in discussions that the hip belt somehow makes weight disappear, that I am carrying more weight without it. I don't argue any more about that monumental stupidity (pointing out that the weight on the knees, feet and legs is the same, plus the belt itself).

My Breeze is really starting to show wear and I am at a loss. I can't sew. I can't find a market for pre-sewn Jardine packs or find anybody willing to sew a kit up for me.

[CalebJ]

My Breeze is really starting to show wear and I am at a loss. I can't sew. I can't find a market for pre-sewn Jardine packs or find anybody willing to sew a kit up for me.

Have you looked at the ZPacks Zero? Might be right up your alley. Totally configurable to your needs.

[Wülfgang]

So for anything over 20lbs or so you will want a waist belt. Your shoulders and back will get fatigued as the days wears on otherwise.

Plus, the hip belt pouches are the best idea ever for backpacking.

[Bronk]

If your total pack weight is 12 pounds you're probably not going to see a significant benefit from shifting the weight to your hips and off your shoulders. Like most things, it all depends on what you are going to be doing with it.

[Wil]

Have you looked at the ZPacks Zero? Might be right up your alley. Totally configurable to your needs.

Thanks. I like Zpacks shelters very much and Joe is great to work with. I may look into the Zero, adding the side and main pockets. Maybe the front bag for the balance I like with the Ribz, though it looks like a tangled mess in the pictures.

[CalebJ]

I haven't tried the front pack. Mine is very basic - just the medium hybrid pack with a main mesh pouch and one belt pack. Just enough to give me access to the essentials without opening up the main compartment. About 9 ounces total and very comfortable up to twenty pounds.

[Just Bill]

There's no hip belt because that pack was designed by the dean of the original ultralighters and is designed to carry 15, maybe 20 pounds, tops. If you want the pack you probably ought to get his books, too, as the whole thing works as a system.


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Yar, a bit of history helps the context. Although even the Ray-Way was predated by Kephart and Nessmuk style knapsacks from the 1900's.

Ray's ideas and gear pretty well form the basis of the entire modern UL movement.
A fair point to keep in mind... Ray was one of the best (and for a brief bit perhaps the best) rock climbers, so fair to say that he had the shoulders and upper body to carry a load on his shoulders. Although his wife Jenny did just fine too.

GoLite used most of his ideas in forming it's company.
The GVP 4, by Glen Van Peski (gossamer gear) added a few more features and is close to the breeze. It is also a "stepping stone" in modern pack design with some basic functions.
The Zpacks zero is almost like a history lesson in and of itself. In each option offered you can see features and function added for different reasons. If nothing else, that pack is a good primer/overview of many common options.

(For Wil- you might look into a GVP pack or zimmerbuilt if you want a replica/replacement of your breeze)

Otherwise, you have companies like Lowe, Granite Gear, and Osprey who have done alot with modernizing load haulers and finding a balance. As Caleb mentioned- one only needs to load up and put a squirming kiddo into a Poco Plus to truly appreciate a well made pack.

The main tenant of UL philosophy, is a systems approach. You don't buy one piece, you select a system that works in harmony. So if everything is done together you eventually see an economy of scale in each piece; a ray way pack is a good example of how little pack you need when the whole system is sized together.

That said, most of us have gone back to something for the hips, even if it's little more than a webbing strap to prevent load sway while moving. This does come down to want vs. need. But realistically if a 12 ounce pack does a 100% more enjoyable job than an 8 ounce pack... easy choice for most.
Agree strongly with others- about 15lbs marks the transition point. And even then, there are reasons for more features that facilitate easy movement and staying moving.

To that end-
The runner's have done a good job at coming up with functional packs and moving some stuff forward for easy access.
The backpackers have done a good job of adding function to hip belts and other options to stabilize a load and keep you moving.

Long term, on the low end of weight/function/features you'll see these continue to blend and influence each other.
But it gets increasingly harder to argue against some of the midlevel packs too and you see a trend overall of moving back to the center after finding the edge. I'd say the peak of the SUL wave has passed, but it's worth drilling down to it still for most folks I think. Even if you can see that SUL has passed, or disagree with it's end goal, it's worth your time to read Trail Life, and Mike Clelland's books at the very least.

If you get down to nothing and add 25% back you will be amazingly happy with your system.
But simply carrying a 25lb typical rig and trying to cut 25% off rarely satisfies.
Without the base philosophy and experience of building a system that works... you end up with a lighter but overall crappy collection of stuff.

The original question illustrates this...
Do you need a hip belt? Not if you learn and master UL technique and philosophy, with the right system it is completely unneeded.
But if you want to skip all the steps in between, the answer becomes: of course you need a hipbelt. And x,y,z too!

The useful question is- do you want a hipbelt?
The hard answer is- to do the work to find out.
Or just skip it and dump your stuff in a 2.5lb osprey. This nice thing about SUL is that there are now lots of low effort mainstream gear available that makes a collection of stuff a system in itself. For the most part, that's kinda neat too.

[changed]

I met a girl, Miles, just south of the Whites this year. She built her own cuben pack w/o a hip belt. She was averaging close to 30 miles a day on the whole trail, but admitted herself that carrying all the food you need to carry through the Whites and the 100MW would be an issue with her pack. I'm sure she made it though, because she was definitely a badass.

[rocketsocks]

I always enjoyed loosening the shoulder straps and cinching the waist belt to give the shoulders a rest, then just the opposite...agame of balancing pressure points and tired muscles.

[southern9]

I often find myself carrying all the weight on my hips, with the shoulder straps there to keep the pack from falling off my back.