Trail Magic Overload?

[Starchild]

I just read MacKaye's article "A Project of Regional Planning" and did not notice anything about people setting up food stations at road intersections.

Did I miss something?

Well someone did as I did not say anything about food stations at road intersections. Please reread my post you quoted. All it was about is the essence of his plan, the blending of humanity and wilderness. How it happens, the method, I did not go into here.

[Coffee]

A vacation can have many purposes. Simple relaxation. Recreation. Expansion of cultural horizons. Spiritual enlightenment. And so on. But it is still a vacation. I feel fortunate to be in a position to take five months off, and I'll be on vacation. What I experience on vacation is yet to be experienced. I do feel like no one owes me a thing and I refuse to put myself in situations where I am going to be dependent on others, except in extreme emergency (even then I don't like it). A big part of hiking, for me, is self sufficiency, not being cared for by others.

[Coffee]

Kind of related to this, I recently read an announcement on Facebook from a hiker attempting the fastest known time on the PCT this year unsupported. He is planning to not even get into a vehicle for the entire time he is on the trail, meaning walking to and from all town resupply stops. I think that's an inspiring story of self sufficiency. I think that all of us should be willing and able to do the same, even if we take advantage of hospitality when offered, which I have never thought was "wrong", just not something we should "expect" and certainly not rely on. We aren't special. We are just people on a long vacation.

[Starchild]

A vacation can have many purposes. Simple relaxation. Recreation. Expansion of cultural horizons. Spiritual enlightenment. And so on. But it is still a vacation. I feel fortunate to be in a position to take five months off, and I'll be on vacation. What I experience on vacation is yet to be experienced. I do feel like no one owes me a thing and I refuse to put myself in situations where I am going to be dependent on others, except in extreme emergency (even then I don't like it). A big part of hiking, for me, is self sufficiency, not being cared for by others.

HYOH and all, but thru hiking is no more self sufficiency then free diving. Your hike is as dependent on society as the free diver is dependent on the surface for air, you and the diver are using ever depleting resources previously obtained from society/the surface (aka dependance), the difference is your depleting supply just lasts a bit longer the that of a free diver. I do admit it can create the illusion of self sufficiency and that can be very satisfying. And I do hear you that not being cared for by others is your motivation. Mine was quite the opposite to experience being cared for and more importantly risking putting myself in that vulnerable position that I wanted and needed to experience.

Kind of related to this, I recently read an announcement on Facebook from a hiker attempting the fastest known time on the PCT this year unsupported. He is planning to not even get into a vehicle for the entire time he is on the trail, meaning walking to and from all town resupply stops. I think that's an inspiring story of self sufficiency.

My view is HYOH, and if this is what this person wants to do then go for it. I do not find it inherently inspiring in itself, but ranging anywhere from very inspiring to actually sad for him, more details would be needed to determine where I would place it.

But it is still a vacation.

We differ in that, remember HYOH and what you expressed here is just your opinion. You do not get to define the hike for others.

I do feel like no one owes me a thing and I refuse to put myself in situations where I am going to be dependent on others, except in extreme emergency (even then I don't like it).

To me it's not a issue of 'owe' (as I stated above, what I received is actually impossible to repay - there is nothing I 'owe', there is just something that I have I received, and that has changed my life, changed who I am and know I will now forever give as I have been given as that good will, the hearts that extended that goodness to me are part of my own - that is the price of dependance that I was so willing to pay), It's a issue of Love for humanity in the hearts of us all to me.



Have a great vacation

[MuddyWaters]

Mackaye's concept, was to develop the appalachians as a pretty much developed recreation area to de-stress the city workers. He proposed developing all the farmland in the valleys to renew the rural/urban balance that had been lost as people moved to cities with the industrial revolution. He proposed using peoples free time, their vacation, to have them work in this massive complex to build and maintain it. Not to mention moving sanitoriums and asylums there so the fresh oxygen could heal people.

The only thing he got right, was that a trail would be a good thing. And people had already been kicking the idea of a long distance trail around for years.

His vision, was not what the trail is wanted to be by most, or needs to be, or ever will be.

[Praha4]

you are correct, and my comments by no means intended to compare hiking the AT with going on spring break.... although some view hiking the AT as a good way to spend their spring break. I was speaking only of the motivation for the various church groups that show up at road xings to do hiker feeds... as compared to the church groups that show up at spring break to do pancake breakfasts for the youths.

I'm also wondering if and when we see a "peak" for the AT thru hike phenomena/hysteria. Most of these type activities in history have seen peaks and valleys in interest. My guess is if enough hikers return home from this 2015 AT thru hike version and complain about the overcrowded shelters, hostels, and the trail in general, perhaps more will be discouraged from continuing this practice of showing up at Springer in March/April because it's the coolest thing to do these days.

QUOTE=Pedaling Fool;1959099]No, it's not evolving towards Benton Mackaye's vision: http://www.wilderdom.com/vignettes/a...ts.htm#Shelter


The hostels (along with shuttling) are mostly a simple business venture. A way to make a buck – I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, nor am I saying that is everyone's motivation, but it's a significant factor. The hiker feeds are simply people wanting to party. There is no (and will never be) any educational factor. Although, I guess all the Christian groups are trying to “educate” us...Maybe they are most in keeping with his vision...ha, ha...

Actually, if any part of the trail is somewhat like Mackaye's vision it's the hut system in the Whites, but I guess the money factor kinds of dampers that.

I can see how there are some similarities of hostels/hiker feeds with Mackaye's vision, but those are only on the surface, but if you look underneath it's a completely different animal – much like a wolf in sheep's clothing.


P.S. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see spring break on the same level as hiking the AT...you know the fellowship with nature crap and all...[/QUOTE]

[Coffee]

My hike is obviously dependent on society since I need to transact with numerous parties in order to be successful. However, I'm not dependent in the sense that I need society to provide me with anything outside of an arms length transaction involving payment for goods or services. As I said, I am really not against trail magic, and I'm not against kind gestures, only the reliance on such gestures. But I agree, HYOH is the best attitude to have on these issues.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Mackaye's concept, was to develop the appalachians as a pretty much developed recreation area to de-stress the city workers. He proposed developing all the farmland in the valleys to renew the rural/urban balance that had been lost as people moved to cities with the industrial revolution. He proposed using peoples free time, their vacation, to have them work in this massive complex to build and maintain it. Not to mention moving sanitoriums and asylums there so the fresh oxygen could heal people.

The only thing he got right, was that a trail would be a good thing. And people had already been kicking the idea of a long distance trail around for years.

His vision, was not what the trail is wanted to be by most, or needs to be, or ever will be.

Yeah, MacKaye's vision wasn't shared even by most of his contemporaries. Myron Avery, enlisted by Judge Arthur Perkins, the head of the fledgling ATC at the time (1929), pretty much discarded the grand vision and focused on the physical trail. And after Perkins health declined and his death in 1932, Avery took over leadership of the ATC - and just got on with that single vision of finishing the trail. MacKaye, who never saw eye-to-eye with Avery, quit the ATC in 1936 in protest over construction of the Skyline Drive right next to (and in some cases right on) the AT. Visionaries sometimes suffer from practical myopia. But there wasn't, and isn't, any good reason nor duty to bring all the rest of Mackaye's regional plan to fruition.

That all said, the AT wasn't planned or built to host a travelling party of several thousand thru-hikers either. Thru-hikers are a very small percentage of all AT hikers. But their presence, their behavior, and their supporter's behavior impact the trail, often negatively in many people's opinion, especially in the south during spring. If they don't start "policing" themselves, it will eventually be done for them.

[squeezebox]

Some people come to the AT to enjoy the outdoors, some for the introspection, some for the party. The trail feeds are obviously about the party. HYOH! I guess.
P.S. I wonder how much damage the Gooch Mt. church group has done to the trail, while they could have been cleaning trail, shelters, privys. But I never could understand anything church groups do.

[Lone Wolf]

Some people come to the AT to enjoy the outdoors, some for the introspection, some for the party. The trail feeds are obviously about the party. HYOH! I guess.
P.S. I wonder how much damage the Gooch Mt. church group has done to the trail, while they could have been cleaning trail, shelters, privys. But I never could understand anything church groups do.

they set up there for a good 2 weeks hogging most of the camping space with a huge tent/awning thing feeding hikers that have packs full of food. very mysterious. me and my friends were across the road giving out beer

[Lone Wolf]

then they walk 4 more miles to woody gap for another feed

[rickb]

[QUOTE=Lone Wolf;1959692me and my friends were across the road giving out beer[/QUOTE]

That surprises me.

[Lone Wolf]

That surprises me.

why? we weren't there for that sole purpose. we were basically camped right on the trail and we were the first humans hikers saw coming into the clearing. i asked a hiker as he approached if he'd like a beer and a big smile come across his face and he replied hell yes! did that for a few days waiting on a friend. the beer was a lot more appreciated than food

[rickb]

why? we weren't there for that sole purpose. we were basically camped right on the trail and we were the first humans hikers saw coming into the clearing. i asked a hiker as he approached if he'd like a beer and a big smile come across his face and he replied hell yes! did that for a few days waiting on a friend. the beer was a lot more appreciated than food

OK. That strikes me as being very much different than driving to a trailhead with a cooler full of beer to pass out from the back of a truck-- my vision of how it went down.

For me (only) I see a big difference from the kind of Trail magic that happens organically with people who are either on the trail anyway -- or locals who have the AT in thier DNA -- and those wh come from away to share thier love.

Not sure why. I do know I think it would suck if every single trail crossing had people waiting with food at it, and suspect that 99% of hikers would agree-- just as 99% would agree that at least one feed would be wonderful.

So so its just a question of numbers and execution in the end.

[squeezebox]

Hiker feed= To hell with the physical AT trail, Party On!!! Not much difference from the feeders and the locals that use the shelters for weekend parties and leave the shelter trashed. Same attitude, just not as drunk.

[Maxsdad]

I would think that TRUE trail magic feeds the spirit as much as the body. And in my 60+ years I've never meet anyone who couldn't use a little occasional nutrition for the soul. And every example I've read here about a memorable instance of trail magic was something made with the 'milk of human kindness'. I'll definitely take a helping of that!

[wornoutboots]

then they walk 4 more miles to woody gap for another feed

So Lone Wolf did you just pack a few snickers & bounce between feeds for your main meals But seriously, after reading this years TJ's, I firmly believe this could be done for at least the 1st 100 miles! helps you to save your $$$ for later up the trail I'd love to test this!

[wornoutboots]

Thanks, I'm enjoying this thread!

Vacationers vs Spring Breakers

[full conditions]

Thank you for your opinion, and that is all that it is! And I am so sorry you feel that way and I hope you find your path - it is obviously not here. Each person, each trail angel gets to decide for themselves if it is special and yes it is, the evidence is clear, yes they are special, yes they are entitled (as we all are if we are really living).

May I suggest the Great Eastern Trail, it is a greater chance to get away from the good will of humanity that we all should enjoy.

<sigh> Really? <sigh> You get that internet fora are virtually nothing but people giving their opinions - right? This thread in particular has been particularly opinion heavy and the OP simply asked if (in our opinions) if the hiker feeds (aka "trail magic") has gotten out of hand. You may have even noticed the title of the thread. I expressed my opinion. That's it. No insults to you or the feeders just my opinion that these feeds are causing harm to the trail. Your response? Go find another trail. Ummmm no. Heck no (my apologies for the strong language).
My relationship with the trail stretches back to 1969 with a 50 miler in vermont as an 11 year old. Ten years later I thru hiked the trail. It didn't make me special or entitled to anything. What I was was privileged - privileged to have no responsibilities elsewhere; privileged to have five months of free time available for an awesome vacation. A vacation - not some holy pilgrimage not some giant contribution to the welfare of humanity - a really cool vacation.
I have said elsewhere, that if you want to help some folks who have actually done something to earn a sense of entitlement (although they rarely show it), go set up your feed at any armed forces base or feed your local first responders. But feeding a bunch of folks who have full packs and five months free of the responsibilities that the rest of us face is not just a terrible waste of resources (which, to be clear, they're yours to waste), it is creating a travelling party atmosphere along the first 100 miles of the trail, increasing the concentration of the hoards, increasing the sense of entitlement of that self same hoard, and, in many cases, harming the trail environment.
So, rather than go somewhere else, I'm going to try to do something about it - write to land use agencies, the ATC and local trail clubs. Thanks for the inspiration.

[squeezebox]

I think some of the best trail magic would be jugs of water during dry spells. Drop off a number of jugs on the way to work etc. tie a cord with a caribiner to a tree to thread thru the handles of the empties. Way better than a cheeseburger.